In today’s episode we’re talking with legendary producer, Gabe Schillinger. Gabe Schillinger is a music producer who’s worked with artists like Snoop Dogg, Kendrick Lamar, and Too Short. He had some impressive highlights working in the music industry, but after over a decade of trying to make a living, he found himself broke and unfulfilled.

Luckily, instead of quitting, he started selling his services online, where he found his 2nd passion after music: marketing. Using this newly found passion and knowledge, he was able to get some impressive results with his online music production business, Legion Beats.

He was the first in his niche to pull off a six-figure launch and received his 2 Comma Club Award for doing over a million dollars in revenue using funnels.

He was invited to speak at Funnel Hacking Live in front of thousands of business owners and marketers where he shared the stage with top entrepreneurs like Russell Brunson, Tony Robbins, Frank Kern, and more.

Now, in addition to running Legion Beats, he also teaches entrepreneurs in music and other industries how to grow and scale their businesses. And in today’s episode we’re diving into Gabe’s tips and tricks used for such sky-rocket success. We talk about the methods he used to leverage technology and the mindset-shift needed to finally take action.

Jeffrey: Welcome to the light and your launch podcast today, we're talking about viral marketing. You don't want to miss this stay tuned.

Announcer: Hey, we're the Launch Squad and this is the Lighten Your Launch podcast. We teach coaches and course creators how to lighten their launches. We're bringing you all of the tips and strategies to take your launch from intimidating to money-making. In this podcast, we talk about everything; the sales, strategy, mindset, technical and spiritual aspects of running your best launch ever. So if you're feeling overwhelmed and unsure of the next right step, we're here to bring clarity, confidence, and excitement into your next launch. This is the Lighten Your Launch podcast.

Katie: Welcome back to the show. I'm Katie Collins, and I'm back again with Jeffrey [inaudible]. And today we want to talk with a very special guest about the concept of viral marketing and how to grow an audience using contests and giveaways. So Jeffrey tell our listeners about our amazing guests today.

Jeffrey: I would love to this guest is a personal friend of mine. Our guest today has risen from the ashes of defeat. After spending more than a decade, trying to make a living, selling music. He found himself feeling unfulfilled and broke. After 10 years of producing music and working with a ton of big artists, he still couldn't afford to move out of his dad's house, but when he began selling his music online, he discovered a new passion, a passion for marketing. This transformed his company, Legion beats and his career as a music producer, he was the first in his niche to pull off a six-figure launch and receive his two comma club award sharing the stage with top entrepreneurs like Russell Brunson, Tony Robbins, Frank Kern, and many others today. Our guest has transformed his love for marketing into a business that helps other artists and producers grow and scale their own production enterprises.

Jeffrey: Please give a warm round of applause for Gabe Schillinger Gabe. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for that intro. Thanks for having me on it's great to chat with you guys and be out here. I appreciate it. I am really excited about this because I know you and I have had many a conversation about technology, automation, teams, mindset, and all this kind of marketing stuff. So I feel like our audience is going to get their bang for their buck if you will. Um, so I'd like to just kind of start off, uh, talking about the, the beginnings of your entrepreneurial journey and what it was like, um, when things did start falling into a place and what was, what was the mechanisms that helped you, um, start turning your company around, building the systems, growing a team and, and all that kind of stuff?

Gabe: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think probably the big thing for me even before that was a little bit of mindset shifts. So for me, I was, I came from a background of music, right. So I was just like, uh, I like to be in the studio. I like making beats. I like that. That's what I, that's what I did. I didn't really, I wasn't interested in marketing or business or, or any of that kind of stuff. Uh, I was waiting for somebody to come save me a record label to come save me. I thought, if I just got good enough in my craft of music, then you know, I would get the deal. I'd get the check from the label. I'd get the right manager would come save me, I'd get a publishing deal, whatever it was. Um, and of course after pursuing that for a long time, I started realizing like, nobody's coming for me.

Gabe: You know what I mean? Nobody's going to come see me. Um, and I had some cool opportunities. Like, you know, you kinda mentioned the bio, there were, you know, I'm here in the bay area. And I work with, you know, some of the bigger artists here in the bay and kind of climbed my way up and got to hear my song on the radio, go see the warriors play and hear my music in, in, uh, you know, back when they had Oracle and, um, had some cool stuff, right. And work with some of the artists I grew up listening to. Um, but was definitely not making that kind of consistent money or, you know, looking at this like, yeah, this is going to be career. That's going to sustain me for a long time.

Jeffrey: Did you, did you find it a kind of a rollercoaster of like, Hey, this big thing happened now there's nothing, Hey, another big thing happened, then there's nothing like,

Gabe: Was that part of it? Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Lots of, lots of ups and downs. Um, and the reality was even with the ups, there really was not a lot of money, you know, even if it was like, oh cool. I heard my song on the radio. It doesn't, it doesn't mean I made any money. You know what I mean? Um, which actually, interestingly enough, now we're to jump ahead a little bit in the position I'm in now I get a lot of guys hit me up who, you know, are winning Grammys who are producing, you know, for Kanye and the biggest artists in the world, Drake and all that stuff. And they're hitting me up now, like, Hey, can you teach me how to do that thing where you actually make money consistently because I'm not doing that. You know what I mean? And so it's kind of, it's funny how it's flipped from when I first started, where it was like, you were like either an industry producer, which was like the cool kids, or you were like, maybe you were an internet producer, which is like, oh, that's lame.

Gabe: Right. And now it's kind of shifted. Like my whole mindset was like, wait a sec, would either be an entrepreneur and own my own business where I'd be an employee like those guys. So, so that's, that's been nice that it's shifted, but I used to be the guy who wants to be an employee. Right. And that's kind of what the dream was. Right. You wanna, you want to work, you know, for the record labels and do that kind of stuff. Um, and just, and just focus on music. Um, but I realized like, okay, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to give up on this dream. And, uh, that's when I started trying to sell beats online and that's what kind of opened up my eyes to, you know, this whole world of online marketing and, and, and just business in general and actually realizing, Hey, wait a second.

Gabe: This stuff is, is actually pretty fun too. It's not just this unfortunate thing I have to do in order to make money from my music is like, wait a second. Some of that same like creativity and passion and excitement and focus and energy that before I only put into my music, I can actually put that into my marketing of my business as well. And now this part is actually really fun. It's crazy how, you know, for the people, in my role that are come from music, they, they ha there's, they're so creative and original when it comes to their music. But when it comes to business and marketing, it's super stale. It's boring. It's uninspired. It's the same thing every time. And it's like, just that little mindset shift. Like I've been growing this whole skillset of learning, how to be creative, how to overcome problems, how to do all this stuff in my, in my art that if I could just have that tiny mindset shift to now applying that to my business, that's when things really took off from me. And that's kind of the main message that I tried to get out to creative entrepreneurs is like approach it the same way you do that thing that you already love. And then that's when things are going to really take off. So that was the first step before I even got into any like the tactical. Okay. Step-by-step, here's my processes and stuff like that. It's just that, that mindset shift that

Jeffrey: That's huge. That's such a big, um, a big shift. Um, and I think you had a, you had a guest on your podcast talking about this too, about, um, not about, oh God, I'm trying to recall staying, uh, independent, if you will. Right. Rather than becoming, looking for a label or whatever, like staying independent. I think that was an interesting message I heard.

Gabe: And, and, you know, the ironic thing is when I was really pursuing the, let's say the industry side of things, you know, there was less opportunities than once I started building my own brand, my own business and doing it, you know, quote unquote, independently actually started getting more of people from the industry side, giving me those opportunities. So it actually kind of either way, it's better to build your own thing because then those guys are going to come asking for you more because now you've built that brand. You've you have that, that foundation. That's actually gonna attract those guys anyways, if, if you do want to work with those guys.

Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but those guys being the big labels and stuff, they now start seeing you as an asset rather than a liability.

Gabe: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And you just, and you have, you have leverage if, you know, if your goal was to sign a deal, now you have leverage because you're already doing it on your own. Um, or you can create strategic partnerships. Like, you know, we, I know we're going to get into viral giveaways later, but, um, we've done these different contests. We've done these giveaways. We did one with Snoop last year. And like, for me, like one of the first albums that I ever listened to that got me into hip hop was doggy-style was, was Snoop's first album. Like, so and so like for me as a producer, like that would be so cool. Uh, like, you know, to work with Snoop and, and the old dream would be like, oh, like, if I could just get a placement on this album, meaning like basically sell my music to his label to get on, you know, that, that would've been pretty cool, but now instead we're actually partnering.

Gabe: And so yes, we did a song together and the winner of the contest got to get on that song. But now, you know, we're actually in business together and that viral giveaway, you know, we had 60,000 plus leads. It did multiple six figures in revenue. It got picked up in billboard and hip hop DX and all the big hip hop blogs and was something that was much more powerful than if I had just gotten a placement on the album that wouldn't have done all those things. Right. So it's like this other approach. It's not just like, um, you know, trying to shift the industry a little bit or whatever. It's like, no, we're actually gonna create our own industry. And then you guys can, can come over to us if, if, you know, if you want to come hang out here where like we're making money and having fun,

Katie: I love that. Like, to me, that's along what you were saying was like, you stopped looking for someone to save you and you instead like saved yourself, you know, with your own creativity and your own ideas. And then people flock to that magnetism of, I figured this out, instead of that, help me help me, you know? Totally. So I think that's awesome. I, yeah.

Gabe: Yeah. And I think it's easy to fall into that trap of like, yeah. If I just get good enough at whatever it is, building widgets,

Katie: Right. I'm not good enough yet. Right. I, if they don't notice me, I'm not good enough yet. It's like, oh, you're plenty good. Like figure out a way to get noticed. Yeah. You really found your way through that obstacle instead of having it be an obstacle continuously. So I love that.

Gabe: And it took me a long time. It wasn't until I was a decade plus of trying it, the old way that I even started, you know, trying. So hopefully, hopefully some of the people listening can, can start that process.

Katie: Well, I really think that failure, I'm not saying that you failed, but just generally, if we're not getting the results we're looking for generally that does, it's kind of the pivot that's required. Like it requires a pivot, right. It requires us to be like, all right, something's got to give, because I can't keep living in my dad's basement or keep our own money or, um, you know, living off of this, you know, this amount of money, whatever that amount of money is. So it's like we have to fall down in order to find our, our better way. So

Gabe: A hundred percent, I think it's

Katie: Hard to see that when we fall, but the hindsight works out great.

Gabe: A hundred percent. Yep. And I definitely had plenty, plenty of failures along the way. And, and, um, it's exactly what you said. That's how that's, that's the process. That's how you get better. Yeah.

Jeffrey: Yeah. Amen. Let's, let's speak out for just a second because I love this aspect. And when we first met, I was kind of really blown away by your technical prowess, if you will. And we would talk about the systems in the, in the zaps and stuff. I don't want to get too in the weeds with that, but from your perspective, like what did that allow you to do and what was, you know, the journey of that, uh, automation and from a technological perspective, how did that help you in your business?

Gabe: Yeah, it was huge. I mean, I think that for me, I try to just think of, I think, of the, the system, right? What's the, what's the process? What are the tools, maybe the people that are in place to, to create that bigger system. And usually that's always going to start with, well, are there, are there tools that I can use to automate this process so that I can now maybe I'm spending an hour a day on this thing. Can I spend a minute, a day on it instead and just check to make sure it's working or whatever. And so a lot of times that'll start with technology, we'll start with tools, we'll start with software like Zapier or whatever it might be. Um, because then that creates that time. Um, and then the next step from there might be, well, you know, a person does need to be involved in this system.

Gabe: Like we do need a person to do that, but in order to get that, you know, to, to hand that off to another person, I need to have that system clearly outlined I need that process clearly outlined. So then it became okay. Getting into what is an SOP is, uh, was that standard operating procedure, I think. Right. Yeah. And then, you know, writing that out in some kind of way, having some kind of documentation of that thing so that I can now bring people on to do that process and have this system that works with that, you know, the people, the tools, the pro you know, the, the, the process itself to create this bigger system, which then allows me to spend more of my time doing higher leverage activities, where instead of, I don't know, answering emails, or instead of sending out product fulfillment emails or whatever it might be now, I can strategize on what's the next funnel.

Gabe: What's the next contest. What's the next venture. Um, and that's definitely been a huge part of me being able to, to grow and build a business where it's like, man, like now one of the things I do is work with other music, producers and other entrepreneurs and marketers in general. Um, but especially in the music space, it's really hard to build a business it's really hard to make any money at all. Um, and so the fact that I've been able to do this and, um, you know, now have a good sized team and we're all working full time. We get to do what we love, um, is, is something that I'm pretty proud of and a big, big piece of it is having those, those systems in place to, to allow that.

Jeffrey: Yeah, I think that's hard. And I think going back to the mindset of things, like, I, I, I think for some entrepreneurs it's tough to even think past the inbox, you know, what would be, what would life be like if you didn't have to spend four hours a day in your inbox? You know, and to me, that's what technology is all about. And not, not only just technology, but a team, you know? And so, so your team, I feel like is built is hand-picked like creme Dela, creme, you know, you've spent the time to really bring on professionals and people who are great. And I feel like they, they have, and may correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like they have a sense of ownership in the company. Is that right?

Gabe: I think so. Yeah. And, and I think part of, you know, this whole journey is, is learning the next skill set. And so for me, maybe the first skill skill set was figuring out how to build that funnel myself and do everything myself. And then maybe the next was learning some of that automation. And then next was how to build that team and how to learn, how to motivate different people and different people are motivated by different things, you know, and that's fine, it's no judgment. Um, but you have to learn that and figure out, okay, how, how, how can I speak to this person? How can I incentivize this person on my team that maybe is going to be different from this other person? And that becomes its own skillset of learning of learning, how to do that. Um, so that's been a big part of it and figuring out how do they feel like they have some ownership, whether if that's, you know, trusting that I'm going to hire people that are really smart and that are passionate and excited about this stuff.

Gabe: Um, and, and give them a certain amount of freedom to where they feel like they have some ownership. You know, there's so much ego, I think involved a lot of times for entrepreneurs. I know I had this when I, especially in my early days, it was like, well, I can't, I can't have somebody else answer the emails. Like nobody could answer the emails as well as I do that. That would, the whole thing would burn to the ground. Right. And I really believe that. Right. It sounds stupid, but I really, that was a true, that was a thought I had, well, nobody, who's going to be able to understand all this technology stuff, plus understanding music stuff. Plus, you know, like I really had that belief, of course now I've got, you know, a whole, a whole team just on the customer service side. And they're amazing, you know, they're way better than, than I was.

Gabe: And they're focused on that, you know, as, as their main focus. But part of that process is being willing to say, okay, yes. If I answered this specific email right now, maybe I would do a better job than this person, but if I give them the ability to maybe to fail, um, but, but also just to try different things and say, you know what, I'm going to take your input on this. I'm going to go ahead and answer it that way, try it this way. Let's, let's see what happens, let's test it out. And now they feel like they have some ownership. They feel like they're a part of this thing. And they have a vested interest in it being successful because it's not all just my ideas, it's their ideas, it's their baby too. Um, and I think that that's super important when people feel like they're a part of something bigger than they're going to work so much harder.

Gabe: They're going to be happier. They're going to stay with you for longer. Um, and they're going to feel a lot more fulfilled. So I think that that's definitely a huge part of it is, um, taking my ego out of it and saying, you know what, I'm going to give this person the freedom and trust them. And maybe they will mess up and that's fine. And that's okay. And that's part of the process, but long-term, it's going to pay off and, and create an opportunity for me where now I, I never check my email, you know, every once in a while I might be like, Hey, can you check out this one thing? You know, I'm not quite sure how we handle this as unusual, but other than that, I never, I never even look at the inbox.

Jeffrey: That's why I don't even have any anymore.

Gabe: You can box me. Right.

Katie: I love what you said about that. I'm curious, like where, um, you know, did this kind of leadership training quote unquote, uh, come from somewhere or was that just trial and error and in your own personal experience of being on other people's teams that made you go, I know how I like to be treated, or did you read like a bunch of Brenae brown?

Gabe: Yeah. Um, I guess, uh, well, yeah, so I have not had the opportunity to be on a lot of teams. I've been kind of, I guess, lucky, uh, in a way where, you know, I haven't had, um, I haven't had that, so, so it's good and bad. Um, it's, it's good because I don't have a lot of the preconceived ideas of what a corporation or a business should look like. And so that can be good and bad, right? Because sometimes it's like, well, maybe if I had actually had a real job at some point, then I would know, you know, what the structure should be. And this, the answer here would be obvious, but there's other times where it's like, maybe that assumption is bad and I'm just going to take it from the perspective of, well, here's how I think we should do it.

Gabe: Here's how I would do it. And, um, so I think sometimes that helps sometimes it doesn't. Um, as far as people who have helped me with that structure, um, a coach named Alex Charfen definitely helped me a lot. And he, he talks about, um, just his whole way that he structures things. Um, certain things like doing a daily huddle, uh, which we do, uh, where it's just a very quick, very structured meeting. Um, that's, you know, one of the, the first thing we do is we do wins and shout outs. So it's just everybody on the team, you know, our teams all over the world now. And so it's, it's important, I think, to feel like we're still on the same team, we're all communicating. So the first thing is wins and shout outs. Can, can you shout out somebody else on the team who did something good, or can you talk about a win that we've had collectively as a team?

Gabe: And that's how we started off and it's, you know, it's all positive and then very quickly going into, Hey, if you've got any roadblocks cool. Let's, let's, let's talk either talk those through right now, or at least make sure we have the next steps. Um, and it's just a quick meeting, you know what I mean? And then, and having a whole cadence where it's like, okay, there's those daily huddles. Um, and I guess approaching it from the other way is like, okay, what's our, what's our big picture mission. What are we trying to accomplish here? And then figuring out, okay, in the next year, what are we trying to accomplish? And then in the next quarter, what are we going to do to accomplish that? And then the next month, what are we doing to accomplish those quarterly goals and this week, what are we going to do to accomplish that, you know, uh, where wherever I'm at weekly goal and, and today, what are we going to do to get there?

Gabe: Um, and then having our communication style be in part of that cadence we'll have the daily huddle, we'll have, you know, a monthly check in a quarterly, a yearly where we're talking about these different things. And, um, what's really important is I know for me, sometimes I might set these like huge goals, right. Something that's, that's really hard to achieve. Um, and sometimes I might hit it and sometimes I might not, but it's like fun, cause I'm going for it. What I found a lot of times for the team is making sure that I dial that back a little bit and set goals that are realistic. And what ends up happening is you get in momentum and you say, okay, here's, here's the next target. And then we hit that target and we run through that target. And then we run to the next target.

Gabe: We run through that. We run through that instead of being like, Hey, we're going to go from, you know, a million dollars in sales to $10 million in sales. And then it's like, well, we got from a million to 2 million. Like, that's actually pretty cool. But, but for, for a team member, sometimes it feels like, well, wait, I thought the rules of the game where we're trying to hit this, we didn't hit it. I I'm I'm, you know, I don't feel good about that. So it's like, how can you set up the rules in a way that they understand what the rules are and know how to win that game? Because if you keep changing the rules, you keep changing the goals, then everybody's confused. They don't know what they're doing anymore. So, so being willing to, um, stick to that structure has, has been huge for me.

Jeffrey: That's awesome. Yeah. How many hours a week do you spend in meetings?

Gabe: Um, not a lot because we'll do that daily huddle is about 15 minutes a day. Um, sometimes shorter, sometimes longer if there's, you know, a reason. Um, and then we'll do, you know, our monthly is about an hour. Quarterly is about an hour. Um, annual is about an hour. So, so it, it adds up. Um, but it doesn't feel like, okay, we're just doing this meeting for the sake of having a meeting. We have a structure, we know what we're doing, we're looking at okay. Here's, here's the goal of this meeting. We all know what it is. We have an outline. Okay, cool. Let's go through it. Um, and then it doesn't just feel like, oh, we're just meeting because we're supposed to write. Yeah.

Jeffrey: Yeah. I love that. All right. Let's shift here. I want to get to this viral marketing system here or the concept and like dive in here. Cause I know it's so powerful. And um, first of all, explain that to us Gable. What, what is this idea?

Gabe: Yeah, I mean, so for me, you know, selling beats, so buy beats, I'm talking about like the music that a rapper singer is going to rap or sing to. Um, I w I had a, a challenge I still do, which is that I'm selling a low ticket item to an audience that doesn't really have a lot of money. Right. So it's like, um, it's a tough way to, to run a business, honestly. Um, and so it was hard to compete, for example, with, let's say maybe running Facebook ads or whatever, where it's like in another business may be paying 2, 3, 5, 10, $20 per lead is going to end up being profitable. For me, it was like, I got to get leads for like 50 cents or less to be profitable. So how, how can I make this work? Um, and that's where trying to be creative comes into that.

Gabe: We were talking about earlier of like, okay, here's my problem. Let me try to be creative. Let me come up with solution here, as opposed to just being like, ah, businesses is boring or whatever. Right. Um, and so one of the things that that really helped for me was, um, this concept of, of virality and how can I incentivize my audience, my customers to essentially bring me more customers. And so that's kind of taken on different forms. Um, but one of the, one of the versions that's worked really well is doing these kinds of viral giveaways. So I mentioned, we did that one with stoop last year, we're doing one with an artist named, uh, tech nine this year. Um, basically the, the simplified, you know, see how simple I can make it is you enter the contest, right? In this case, it's free to enter, uh, you enter the contest and what happens is you enter and you get your own unique share link.

Gabe: So similar to like, if you've been an affiliate for somebody, you'll have your own link, right. And that link is going to track everybody who clicks that link and enters the contest is going to be another point for, for you, right? And the more points you get, the more prizes, the more rewards you get. And if you get the most points, then you win the big prize. So now what you're doing is you're, you're incentivizing those customers to bring you more customers. And it becomes like, um, well, it becomes viral, right? Because if they refer to people and you know, each of those people refer to people, you know, it keeps kind of snowballing and adding up. Um, and there's, there's a few things that really helped to make this successful. And one of the things is, uh, making sure that you explain the contest in a way that, that justifies it.

Gabe: Right? So if I, if I, if they get to page two there and I say, Hey, what's up, you know, I'm doing this contest because I want you to bring me more customers. It's not very inspiring. Right. So instead what I'll do. Yeah. I mean, it might work, but it might not be as effective as what I do, which is on page two, there, I've got a video and I'm saying, Hey, like, you know, um, you know, my, my goal, my mission here is to empower, um, you know, independent rappers and singers like yourself to take advantage of all these incredible opportunities and tools and technology that we have today, so that you can be successful on your own and not wait for, you know, a record label to come save you. Um, and I I'd really love your help spreading the word about that.

Gabe: So here's how this works. Here's your link below, right? So now all of a sudden, not only are they spreading that word because they want to win the prize, but now, now they're empowered. They have a mission they're enrolled in your mission, right? So that's one of the things is like, justifying, why, why are you doing this? Um, another one is to make sure that you incentivize people along the way. So I don't just say, Hey, if you get the most points, then you win. Because somebody might be like, oh, well, there's no, I don't have a big following. There's no way I'm going to, you know, there's no way I'm going to be number one. So what I do is I say, Hey, if you just get two other people to join the contest, you're going to get this prize. And then if you get five people to join the contest, you're going to get this pricing.

Gabe: If you get seven, if you get 10. Right. And so what I'm doing is now no matter who you are in for, like, you know what, there's no one I'm going to win. I don't know anybody, but what you said, I seem to get to, okay. I can get two people. Let me just like, text my friend and post this on my Facebook, you know? And it's like, oh, wait, I got two people. Okay. I guess I could get five. Right. And so each step of the way, there, there, there's always another reason for them to keep going. And then another thing that's really helped is, um, just knocking down the objection, you know, another common objection will be like, okay, well, I have a pretty good following. I think I might actually win this, but there's sort of this thing of what if I refer the person who ends up winning instead of me.

Gabe: Right? So it's like this little, I don't know, like cognitive dissonance of like, well, I don't want to share it with like quite too many people or the wrong person, but you kind of want to win. Um, so the way that we've, uh, overcome that objection is, would just say, Hey, guess what? If you refer the person who wins the grand prize, you want it to, but what ends up happening is now not only are they incentivized to bring you more people, but they're incentivized to bring you the best people, because they're like, okay, cool. As long as I can just let me see if I can find somebody who has a big following, let me bring that person in because then I'll get to win it too. Um, and so that's something that's really helped. So now, whatever, you know, basically it's just being creative, looking like, what, what are all the possible objections somebody might have to entering this contest to, to sharing the contest is sharing the link, where are they going to have problems? You know, it's always just, okay, how can, how can we knock down that objection. Um, and so that, you know, looking through some of those things has been, what's allowed us to have these, uh, these successful giveaways.

Jeffrey: Remind me, after this show, I've got a link to give you for know, to share up to your audiences, to mine.

Katie: I mean, you're speaking my language, the whole overcoming objections thing. I mean, that's, you know, I come from a, well, I don't come from a sales background, but my, in the coaching world that I learned sales and, um, and you know, we teach our clients about building their offers and stuff. And so I'm always saying like, you've got to like pre understand what their objections are going to be, and then overcome those objections in the copy and in your lives, and then all your content. And so you're doing the same thing. So this is like the thing about, like, if you understand marketing at its core, it gets applied in all these different places for the best success. So I love that. And, you know, before we started recording, that was one of my questions in my head was, yeah, well, you can get all those leads, but are they quality leads? And you just answered that. So, yeah.

Gabe: Um, and, and another, um, yeah, absolutely. And that skillset of selling of marketing, it works everywhere. Right? No matter what it is when you're talking about building your team, you know, one of the things, and we can talk about my process for want of, of hiring though, is making sure that that job posting, it's not just like, Hey, I've got a job, I'll give you money if you want it. And, you know, here's, here's what it is. Like, no, let me write a great job posting, let me use my copywriting skills or my ability to sell or overcome objections, to show the best possible candidate, why they should want to work for me. And so sometimes we forget, and it's like, no, use those skills everywhere. Whether it's a job posting, whether if it's a, a free giveaway or, or it's a sales page, of course, um, you know, apply those skills. Cause, cause they're going to, um, they're going to be useful.

Katie: Yeah. Same on online dating sites,

Gabe: [inaudible]

Katie: Shots and copywriting skills make a big difference

Gabe: A hundred percent. Oh, and I did want to say, sorry, one thing before I forget, because you did mention about qualified leads. One other thing to, to, um, uh, do there is make sure that the prize that you're giving away is really exciting to your dream customer, but not to everybody else. Right. So I generally discourage that grand prize from being cash from being a, you know, a trip to Hawaii or an iPad or something like that because yes, my dream client might be interested in that, but so is yours. And so is their grandma. And so is everybody else, right? Yeah. So like, you know, what we've done is, uh, you know, one year we had a giveaway where it was like, Hey, we're gonna, we're going to fly you out to the studio. We're going to mix and master your song, we're going to record and edit a music video.

Gabe: We're gonna help you promote that. Right. If you're my dream client and independent rapper singer, that sounds awesome. But if you're not, you're kind of like, I don't know what to do with that. Right. So that, that's part of the thing too, is figuring out how can I, how can I incentivize the right people? Um, and it doesn't have to be something super expensive. The, one of the first giveaways I did, it was just, it was just a bunch of beats. It was a digital download. It cost me nothing to fulfill on. Um, but it was something that was exciting enough to my dream customer and exciting enough to them that they would actually share it.

Jeffrey: I think that's such a powerful point. Such a good point. Yeah. It goes back to, uh, when I think of finding the right lead magnet or, you know, creating that, uh, demand and desire for your offer ultimately comes with setting up the stage for your offer. You know, getting them prepared, seeing where they are fulfilling the gap and, and even, um, you know, pointing out the gap from where they are now and where they need to go. And, um, things like that. Yeah. That's huge.

Katie: So I want to, I want to ask, cause I know I had asked you earlier, you know, is this a good strategy or tool for, um, our audience, which is really comprised of coaches and course creators? Um, I don't know, I'm putting you on the spot here. Do you have any like ideas off the top of your head for, you know, you had said choosing prizes that are valuable and low risk, um, what, like what are some prizes that people could give away that would really incentivize? Like, I'll just give you a niche example. Like say it's a health coach and the health coach is selling. Um, uh, like actually I work with one, she does a hair mineral analysis. So I send my hair into a lab and get that. And then we do, um, food and nutrition consulting to go along with the changes that the lab recommended based on my hair. So somebody like that, like what, what could she give away that would of,

Gabe: Wow. You really, really gave me an easy one there. Of course, obviously I always use the hair mineral example.

Katie: I know [inaudible]

Gabe: Um, really, so the place that I start with a giveaway, which is also where I start with any business is, well, who is my dream customer? And what's the result I'm trying to get them. That's where you should start anyways. Right. What, what is that? Who exactly is that person? What's the result I'm trying to get for them. And so one way to think about this is look at, okay, well, who is that dream customer and what would be if I had no restrictions on time or money, how would I get them that result? And then maybe start there and maybe it would be well, I'd fly them out to my office and I'd give them a full day and I'd introduce them to this person. I do that. And maybe Pam, maybe that is your, your grand prize, right? Maybe it's like, well, I don't want to pay to fly them out there, but I could do something similar virtually.

Gabe: And it includes this, this and this. And I can connect them with this person who's in this industry that maybe people would know or, or not. Um, I can do a bundle of my courses. I can do whatever I would sell at a high ticket price and kind of coaching thing, really just separating from like, okay, what's the, what's the thing going to be? It's like, no, what's the result. If you, if you can get that person that result, then that's your grand prize. And that those are the exact people are then going to, you know, want to come into your world and you can, you can climb them up that value ladder. You can, maybe you offer them a low ticket thing or a mid ticket thing first. Um, and also by the way, that can become one of the biggest hacks too, is you, you make the, um, the grand prize be, you know, let's say it is your, a version of like your high ticket coaching or something, right.

Gabe: If we're talking to coaches and course creators, um, then for one thing, again, it sets up perfectly to start, uh, sending them through the lower levels of the value ladder. What you can do also is, um, when you do the winners announcement, you can leverage that into a launch. So that could look like, you know, okay, Hey, join us live, you know, on whatever day we're going to announce the winners, right. And everybody wants to know, well, you know, did I win? Um, and, and so you can use that attention that you have there to now launch this other thing. So one of the best ways to do that, to say, Hey guys, you know, we're about to announce the winners, but guess what? This thing that you guys have all been really wanting to win this, this, you know, whatever VIP day, this high ticket thing, whatever it is.

Gabe: Um, you know, we haven't done this, but, but we're actually going to open up the doors. Again. We haven't, we haven't done this for a year, you know, whatever it is. Right. And actually, if you join right now just for you guys, cause you were part of the giveaway and you know, I'm so honored that you guys took the time to help spread our mission. Uh, I just wanted to make this available to all you guys. So we're gonna announce the winner in a second, but really all you guys are winners because right now you can sign up, right? And then you can go into your, your pitch, right. And you give them some kind of special offer. And now this thing that's now been positioned in their mind to be this thing, they're all fighting, they're scrambling, they're hustling to win. Now it's available for sale at a discount or with some special bonuses or something like that. It becomes a no brainer where they're like, oh yeah, I want to, I want to buy that thing. Right. So now you can actually just take that thing that was going to be the prize. And, and now that you're launching your product off of that. Hmm,

Jeffrey: Dang genius. Love it. Love that Katie write that down.

Katie: I was told no typing during, By my tech guy.

Jeffrey: You're clinking. We've got to get a mic like yours artist picks up everything.

Gabe: These are pretty, uh, pretty directional. So I do like these ones. Nice.

Jeffrey: What, what kind is that right there?

Gabe: This is a SM seven, the, um, uh, Shure SM seven beat.

Jeffrey: And is it, what's the difference between a dynamic mic and a co um, condenser mic? Is that what it is?

Gabe: Yeah. So basically a, um, a condenser is going to need a power source. It has to do with the technology and basically it needs to be powered, whereas dynamic doesn't. So like, if you think about like, uh, if you've got like an SM 58, which is like the classic, you know what somebody is holding on stage that kind of microphone, it doesn't require any power source. Um, so you can just plug it straight into your preamp or whatever, whereas something that's a condenser is going to need the call, it Phantom power. It's 48 volts of power. It's just the technology of how it works. Generally. A condenser is probably going to be better quality, but that's not true a hundred percent of the time. Um, but yeah, I would say, you know, if you've got a few hundred bucks, I would definitely go with, uh, with this guy that's, I'm 70. I really like it for, um, for voiceover stuff or for speaking. And actually it's, it's not bad if you are recording, you know, singing and stuff.

Jeffrey: Sound sounds great. Does it pick up a lot of room? I'm hearing you move around in your chair and it's not really picking up on the mic. I liked that

Gabe: It's pretty directional, meaning it's like, you know, you can have these different patterns right here, like a cardioid pattern. There's more of like, um, so it's, it's much more directional than like, uh, what, what you guys have got there. The one are those, the Yetis. Yeah. Those, yeah, those are, you know, a little bit more, um, they'll pick up a more gentle, but honestly the, the room matters so much. Like the microphone is, is important, but like if this room was how it used to be before I treated it, like you'd still hear a bunch of reverb and stuff. So you need to make sure, you know, the more soft stuff you have, whether that's actual, excuse me, like sound panels, um, or at least having couches and clothes and carpets and you know, the more soft stuff you can have, uh, definitely the better, otherwise it's gonna, it's no matter how good your mic is, it's going to sound like garbage. Ah,

Jeffrey: I love, I have so much more to geek out on with this, but we're totally straying off topic.

Katie: Oh, I know what I wanted to ask you because I, you know, as I was checking you out ahead of time here, um, since you're Jeffrey's friend and I haven't met you and I just loved how, um, you know, you bring up a lot of mindset stuff on Instagram, right. Because your target market are artists who maybe resist the marketing and sales, just like some of our people resist the marketing and sales, you know? And so yeah, you talk a lot about, um, you know, like you're not a tree keep moving. Right. Or, um, the whole like read books, meet new people. Right? Like do like learn stuff. Like how do you, um, yeah. I either have two questions off the top of my head. So I'll say them both. And you can answer which your favorite, um, how do you motivate people that are stuck like that, right? Or do you have a go-to author or a go-to book that you're like, you got to read this, this is what put me on the path when I was, you know, whatever wining or uninspired.

Gabe: Yeah. I think, I think for me, a lot of it, if you're talking to musicians, producers, or really any, any creative entrepreneur and we all are right. Whatever our craft is, whether that's teaching people about, you know, nutrition or, uh, or, or how to market or music or anything else, uh, that's our craft, right. We're artists. That's what we do. And I think just it's and I guess I mentioned this earlier, but it's just kind of making that connection of like, we probably have a natural passion for that. We're probably excited about that. Naturally. It's probably why we are here in the first place is because that's the thing we're excited about doing, maybe in my case, it's making music. Right. But in order to get good at making music, we had to overcome all kinds of frustrating things of, you know, man, I made my first beat and it sounded like trash.

Gabe: And then my second beat and my hundredth feet and my thousand feet sounded like trash, but then they started to sound okay. And you know what I mean? Um, and, and then it's also like, and I came up against all these problems, maybe for me as a producer, I was trying to install some software to make some beats and that didn't work. And I had to figure out how to, how to do it. And it was annoying. It was frustrating, but, but I stuck with it. Um, and so the big thing for me is just applying that skill set. I already have that I've learned from the thing I'm already passionate about. And then just applying that over to my business. That that to me is the biggest thing. Because then if you can think about it that way now, it's like, you've got that natural source of creativity, of excitement and passion, and you can just put that into this new thing.

Gabe: And then that's for me when things really started to take off. And, um, and usually when I get those, you know, I'm sure in the position you guys are in, you get, you get those messages and DMS of people that are really grateful, right? Cause you help them accomplish this thing they're trying to accomplish. So often the version that I get of that is man, you really shifted my perspective. I used to just be interested in music and I just looked at entrepreneurship and marketing and business as this, this unfortunate thing that I kind of had to do some times. Uh, but now I'm super excited about it. And because of that, now I'm making six figures or now I could quit my day job or, you know, now I branched off and not only am I doing music, but I discovered I love this. And you know, it took me down this other path. So to me, that's the biggest thing is, is just applying that natural passion and excitement that you have for whatever that thing is, that first thing is. And then just applying it to your, to your business. I think

Jeffrey: That's so huge. That is so huge. Any way you confuse the things we have to do with the things we want to do. Right.

Katie: 'cause I think you, you kind of just spun on the head on its head, the phrase, like change it from my half to two, I get to right. Because that doesn't really work for people. Like, you know, it's like, oh, you don't like, well just take away half two and insert get two. And then you'll love it. Like, no, right. It's like, you know, it's the whole like fake it till you make it type thing where, you know, you're like find the, what's the part of you that says, all right, I'm going to do this because like, I love it. Or it has to be done. Or it's like seeking expression through me. Right. Like your whole, you know, create a beat. And if it's not good, then do it again and do right. Like all of us learned to ride a bike that way. And we learned how to walk that way. And so all new skills, you get to learn it in a way, um, where you choose you, you know, you choose it because you love it. Yeah. And you know, we talk a lot about like, uh, focus on the impact. You know, if you don't, if you don't learn about sales and marketing, then your impact is going to stay, you know, minuscule. And so if the impact is what matters, then you overcome whatever is in your way of learning the thing. So, yeah,

Gabe: Exactly. Right. It's, it's coming back to that. Y you know, what, if that is the impact that you're creating with, with your course, with your content, with, with your coaching or with your music, it's the same, it's the same idea coming back to that. That's why I want to do this. Okay. Well, in order to do that, I better get good at, at marketing. Otherwise nobody's going to hear it. Nobody's going to learn from it. Well, there won't be any impact.

Jeffrey: And I think, I think my mind just put this parallel together, but between making music and marketing, like, you know, the process of making music, whether you're throwing down a beat and putting down a melody and it just doesn't hit. Right. And you're like, ah, that's cool, but it's just not right. And you do it again. And then you do it again. And the process of creating. And then at some point you're like, oh, that hit it. That hit it. There it is. Right. In, in the same way, you're trying an ad. You're trying a message. You're trying this, and it's not landing, but that same creativity that you're bringing to music, you bring it to the marketing and you just keep doing until it lands. And I think that's what you're really touching on is that you're bringing in that whether you're an artist or a whatever, you're, you're bringing in that portion of yourself, that's passionate about creating and applying it to something you may or may not be passionate about, but it's going to bring you a lot of money.

Gabe: Yeah, definitely. And I, what I see happen over and over is once you start doing it, and once you start having success with it, then you start actually getting the passion and excitement for the marketing of business itself. Sometimes it just takes that little extra push, that little mindset shift, the, you know, getting through the first frustrating part of it to now you start getting a couple of wins and you're like, oh yes. Now I am having the impact I want. Now my music is getting hurt by more people. Now I am making money doing this. And, and then, and then that it becomes more fun to do because of those results. And then you, because stick with it, then you start to get the intrinsic part of it. Like, oh, not only do I like the money, but actually this is kind of fun to just be creative and figure out how, how can I put this together in a way that, that is ultimately going to have that?

Katie: I think most of us are intrinsically motivated when, when we're quote unquote good at something. Right. But the only way you're going to get good at it is to keep, keep doing it. But yeah, the results make us feel happy, but also just the, oh wow. I can write copy. Or, you know, for me, like I came from a teacher background. So when I actually learned heart-centered sales, which was my big thing, like, oh, I don't like sales. I don't want to be salesy. I don't want to show up like a used car salesman, you know? And then I learned this other approach. And then as I started getting good at it, I was like, oh wow, this is actually easy. This is fun. I just changed my narrative. So we can all do that. But yeah, you have to just overcome the initial. I don't want us.

Gabe: Yeah, totally. And so many people don't get past that I don't want to face. And that's why, you know, that's right. That's why they, they are not able to build a business from, from the thing they love. That's why

Jeffrey: There are fewer at the top than at the bottom.

Gabe: Yeah.

Jeffrey: Yeah. Game. This has been so, so awesome. I want to respect your time and I want to see if there's any final thoughts or anything you want to wrap up or add to this conversation to call a complete.

Gabe: No, I just, I love talking about this stuff. I love doing this stuff and, and I hope that by doing that, that can help maybe somebody who you know, is listening or is in that position where they are in those early stages. And they do feel like, well, I don't really want to, if, if, if you know the work that you guys are doing can help, um, motivate them, can help shift their mindset just a little just enough. So they stick with it for, for one more day, one more week, one more month that they can ultimately be able to do what they love for a living. I think that's, that's kind of the whole point. So I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity to, to share your platform with you.

Jeffrey: Yeah. Oh man. Thank you for being here. Um, w what is, what's the best way for people to explore your world?

Gabe: Um, let's see. You can find me on Instagram Legion, Gabe. Um, I also, I do have a course about viral giveaways and stuff and check it out at contest, launch and, uh, yeah, those are probably the best ways to that's ways to find me.

Jeffrey: Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, man, and sharing your time and expertise. It was really good to connect with you again and, and, uh, we got to hang out soon.

Gabe: I know we do. We do. Awesome. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

Katie: Thank you.

Jeffrey: Awesome. Thanks everybody for joining us. And if you joined the sec, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five star review, hit that subscribe button and write us a few words and you can check out all the show notes and how to connect with [email protected] forward slash episode 46. Thanks a lot.

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About the Show

The Lighten Your Launch Podcast is for Coaches and Course Creators who want a lighter online launch experience. Maybe you’ve done a few launches already, and feel exhausted just thinking about it! Or, it’s been one of your goals, but you don’t know where to start.

Tune in to learn from our team of experts, The Launch Squad, who aren’t afraid to dig into all aspects of launching: sales, strategy, technology, mindset, funnels, and even a bit of woo to get you through the toughest times. Let’s put a stop to perfectionism and procrastination, and finally take your launch from intimidating to money-making!