Today we want to talk about how you can use psychology and persuasion to craft a remarkable marketing message for your next launch. In this episode, we’re speaking with Amisha Shrimanker from the Copy Crew.
After having her second child in 2016, today’s guest was looking for a way to make enough income to support her family and also provide enough time to be with them. In the fall of 2018 she put a stake in the ground and said, “You know what? I think I know enough to call myself a copywriter..” in that moment she went all-in on herself and said ‘no’ to everything else.
Today, she is a conversion copywriter, a launch strategist and founder of a boutique copywriting agency called The Copy Crew. She writes launch copy for online course creators, membership site owners, and high-ticket coaching programs.
Her copy has earned her clients 6 & 7 figures in revenue. Her specialty is writing sales pages and she blends psychology, persuasion & personality to write launch copy that converts.
You can connect with Amisha on social and her website.
While you’re there, grab her “5 Compelling Hooks & Headlines To Start Your Sales Page”

Then, join her 4-week BootCamp “The Audit Superstar”:

And connect with “@thecopycrew” on all social platforms

Jeffrey: Welcome to the light and your launch podcast today, we're talking about launching with the power of psychology, persuasion, and personality in your marketing message to stay tuned

Jeffrey: Welcome back to the show. I'm Jeffrey Samorano I'm back again with Katie Collins.

And today we want to talk about how we can use psychology and persuasion to craft remarkable marketing message for your next launch. Katie per usual. Can you introduce our guest today?

Katie: I would love to. So after having her second child in 2016, today's guest was looking for a way to make enough income to support her family and also provide enough time to actually hang out with them. So in the. 2018. She put a stake in the ground and said, you know what? I think I know enough to call myself a copywriter.

And in that moment, she went All in on herself and said no to all the other distractions. So today she is a conversion copywriter, a launch strategist and founder of a boutique copywriting agency called the copy crew. She writes launch copy for online course creators membership site owners. And high ticket coaching programs.

Her copy has earned her clients six and seven figures in revenue. Her specialty is writing sales pages and she blends psychology, persuasion, and personality to write launch. copy. that converts, please. Welcome to the show. Amisha, Sri Moncur.

Amisha: Yay.

Jeffrey: Welcome to the show.

Amisha: Awesome. Hello. There I am so excited to be here.

Jeffrey: Awesome. We're excited to have you. Yeah.

Katie: I think the launch squad and the copy crew have a few things to talk about, so

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Amisha: for sure. We have so much in common. I cannot wait to get this conversation going.

Jeffrey: The question is where the heck do we start? I'm actually really curious of this psychology persuasion and personality. Like, tell me about that. Tell me, uh, what that means. How do we, how do we dive in?

Amisha: Yeah, so, well, copywriting is a lot to do with your buyer psychology, right? And it's coming on knowledge that you need to know, what are their fears, dreams, challenges, what do they really want? What are their beliefs? And your copy is a way to kind of like, you know, uh, objection, proof, everything. Can I get them through those objections, get them to believe, get them to like, kind of say like, Hey, this is for you and persuade them.

And I don't want to go too much into the slimy persuasion tactics that we've been seeing thrown around all the time. And, you know, it's got a bad rap in the last couple of years for sure. But there are still a way that you can do it just ethically and the personality, but comes because, um, I don't, I think.

It's basically you're, you're writing the way you talk, right? I mean, if you look at old sales letters, The language was very heavy. It was, uh, it could get jargony. And, you know, I, I tell my clients like, it's the curse of genius, you know, your stuff too. Well, you kind of put it in the copy and the, the reader's looking at that and it's like, I don't understand anything.

You're saying, like, I'm working with a therapist right now. And she's very clinical in her approach. And, you know, we get to the point where I have to tell her like, okay, stop, stop, stop. We need to back up. And we need to talk in a way that your layman, that you're calling. Whoever's going to buy your thing is going to understand what you're selling to them.

So we need to inject some personality, like get their attention, get them like, okay. I like what you're offering and I get it. And I'm interested. So talk like you, everybody else talks and kind of like still make your sale. If that makes sense. And for me, personality means kind of like adding a little bit of humor because I like to add cop humor into my copy.

I'm sort of self-deprecating as a person anyway. So even in my emails, I will kind of like talk about my tiny humans and, uh, you know, talk about how I live, uh, near this house and this, you know, this farmer who's raising goats and, you know, just kind of like bring that into your copy everyday. Copy whether it's your email, it's your sales pages.

I think we can all do that. And. Yeah. Even if you think you don't have personality, you definitely do. You just have to find a way to make it interesting. And there are some tips and techniques you can do that. Uh, you know, um, and I can share a little bit more about that, but you can definitely, when you have that blend, like, oh, she's persuasive.

Oh, she gets me the psychology piece. Oh, she's talking to me like a friend would talk to me and I want this thing. You've had jackpot. So.

Jeffrey: I think that's my biggest hangup really is that when I'm, when I'm talking, I'm talking and I, it's not how I write when, as soon as I start typing, I sound like a technician and it's just doesn't work.

Amisha: Yeah. Yeah, it comes up right? Like one thing I'll tell you for sure. Like, if you're a stickler for grammar, you know, that copywriting breaks most of those grammar rules and

Katie: reach it. I just talked about that on a live the other day, how I, it took a lot for me to unwind from my identity of having a master's degree in education. right. And I just, wasn't going to use words like Gumma and, you know, things like that just drove me crazy, but my emails were written at this like college level, uh, you know, writing and I just quickly learned, like, it just doesn't connect and people don't care how smart.

They really want to know that, like you, you're fun to hang out with. Right. Especially if they're going to be spending six months with me. So, but yeah. I had to, and that's what I was going to say. I think people that have that, you know, any sort of higher level of education, they're proud of it. They're probably, they could still be paying it off and they don't want to, they don't want to let go of that identity, but it just is the wrong identity to have in marketing,

Amisha: Oh, totally, totally. I mean, the way I like to do it as, and I'm not even a native English speaker, so it's like, um, yeah, for me, I had a lot of those hangups, like, oh my gosh, if someone going to understand me, I learned the Queens proper English and I'm like, oh gosh, I got to break out of that.

Katie: right.

Amisha: to these people, like, you know, not worrying so much about.

Okay. Talking about the crown and Megan Markel and her stuff. Um, but yeah, so yeah,

Jeffrey: Awesome. I want to talk about this idea that, um, turning your skill into a business. Like how do you know you're ready? And you. You kind of talked about this and other places on your website and stuff like that. Like, you know, turning a skill, moving from, you know, skill building to, uh, you know, business building and making it a career and stuff like that.

What is that like? And what was that journey like for you?

Amisha: So I started in 2018, as you guys know. And my initial years, I spend a lot of my money on the craft itself, learning how to write. And I it's veer to admit this now that I don't spend a lot of. Uh, the last couple of years, I haven't spent so much in my copywriting skills as much because you it's a never, it's like one of those things, like it never stops.

Right. And it's, for me, I'm like, I don't wanna, I don't want to learn any more copywriting. And I know this sounds like, oh my gosh, did she actually say that? No, because I want to. More about building a business because you can be talented and I have the skills, but I got to a point where like, if I'm going to be the person to write sales pages, always the person to like, you know, View myself as an order taker.

And so will the client's like, oh, she's exceptional at writing copy. Right. That's the first thing that comes to mind. She's so skilled at just writing copy, but they won't look at me as, oh, she's a strategic collaborator. She's someone who's got a thinking brain and who can help us with this campaign, not just write us a nice old email.

So I, I started talking a lot more about the strategy side of things, and I wanted to bring that more into the. Versus sharing how to stuff about writing copy. And I've started, I've done that in my current, um, content as well. I don't write, I don't tell my audience or people have little followers that I have on Instagram.

How do you write a headline or how do you write a caption? Going away from that. And I'm like, all right, you've got a skill. How do we monetize that? How do we market it? It's because I needed to learn those things myself, because I needed to make that shift from being an order taker to a business person.

And it wasn't overnight, but you know, that included like say no to non-ideal clients, raising rates and, uh, saying no to toxic clients, all the things. So I know that's kind of like rambling sort of an answer, but it's just a shift where you're like, okay, Learning how to write, copy, start learning how to grow a business.

Jeffrey: I think that's so huge. Um, went through a bit of that in my own journey as well. Um, back back way back in the day, I'm old, by the way, way back in the day, um, I just would build websites and I can relate to that. You know, like being the order taker, when the clients say, make this blue, make this red, move this a pixel this way, move this a pixel that way.

And all the wild things. You're spending a lot of money on this and none of these changes are going to make any difference, you know? So starting to grapple with like, listen, I, I, I have more skills than pixel pusher, you know? So it's like, how do you, you know, that just recalling my own journey of breaking out from that order to like how you call it, the order taker, you know, you know, to, to advisor basically, or

Amisha: Yes. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Less doing and more like thinking and that's and I have, yeah, it's it's then you start need to, you know, cheesy as a sounds show up like that. Okay. Step away from the how to entry-level content writing, stuff like that. You do it. But I, I think it's, it comprises like 20, 30% of my entire content strategy.

Like there's a little bit of how to posts here and now, and then, but it's more how to like, you know, the more mindset thing, the more objection thing, the more high you need to start thinking about your business as a business and how to like, you know, show up for your client and for your business. So,

Jeffrey: Looking at the broader picture. Yeah.

Amisha: yeah, yeah.

Katie: you know, I like, I know that, you know, when we first started chatting and you were talking about. how, um, you really start them with their offer, like, is it. Right. And so that's the thing about being in this launch business is we, we sometimes attract people that are like, I'm ready to launch next week and I need some help.

And we're like, Yeah. we need you for a few months before we're going to launch you, you know? And they, and they don't like to hear that. It's making us kind of practice our messaging as well. Like we want to get you before you think you're ready to launch. Should we want to help you? You know, but we also start with, um, with the offer.

And so all that to say, it's just people think like, oh, I just need this one thing. I just need to hire a copywriter or I just need to build, you know, my website and then the clients will come. Right. I just need, like you had said, like, I just need this one word fixed on my landing page and everything will be, we'll be fine.

Right. And there's just so many. Strategy in place and behind what we do. Um, and, uh, Yeah. it takes a lot for people to, to stop and listen. Right. And you know, like my biggest thing is I'm hearing people say, oh, I'm fine with webinar content. I can teach content up the wazoo. And I'm like, Yeah.

but you're not understanding.

The content it's about creating demand and desire for your offer. So do you have a sales strategy in the webinar content? And they're like, huh?

Jeffrey: Yeah. And then it does that

Katie: why you're not selling.

Jeffrey: Right. And then does that strategy have a system to implement it?

Katie: Yup.

Amisha: it. Yeah. You guys were speaking my love language I had to. Yeah. I had an interesting prospect call. Uh, I want to say last week, and this gentleman, this gentleman, he had a strong list. He had a digital course and he's like, um, I just need a copywriter to write emails I've launched before and less than 1% of his list converted into buyers.

And I'm like, we just need emails. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Let's not talk about your emails. Let's talk about what's going on in your funnel. Like I know we don't like the funnel word, but it's true. Like, what is your customer journey looking like? What, or why did you understand? What, why did you have such low conversions on your launch and no prelaunch?

Nope. We don't know what that is. We don't do pre-launch we just offer it. I'm like, ah, no wonder. And, and you think that emails are magically could have changed everything. And it was

Jeffrey: the map. That's the silver bullet.

Amisha: Brian and we

Katie: there's always a silver bullet, right?

Amisha: And I remember that look on, you know, his, uh, I don't know if she was a marketing assistant or what she was she's like, we just need you to tell us how you write copy.

We're going to already figure out the marketing. I'm like, yeah, this is not going to work.

Jeffrey: Yeah, sorry, I don't see a fit here.

Amisha: definitely not.

Jeffrey: I like how you said that. Nobody likes funnels. That's so true. People are so over their funnel, they don't like funnels, but everybody needs one. And here's the thing that I've found is that. Even so I've had these market research conversations and it's like, so tell me, do you like funnels?

Like what, how do you feel about funnels? Like, oh, I hate funnels. I never want to do a funnel. So tell me how you get clients. Well, first I send out emails and then I send out ads and then they go to a landing page like, oh, you're describing a funnel.

Amisha: I know, right. Wait I, with my more sensitive clients, I'd just say customer journey.

Jeffrey: Right.

Amisha: It'd be

Jeffrey: other than funnel?

Katie: And we just had a conversation with a collaborative partner yesterday about, um, the use of the word launch. People say, I'm going to launch my website. What does that mean? I'm going to announce it on Facebook. I have a website, know what I mean? Like I'm going to send an email, right? Like that. And so, You know? I'm going to launch my book, launch my website, launch my program.

It just has so many different meanings for people that, you know, we ask the question, have you launched before? Um, we asked that in a form the other day and the response was Yes. And it said like, how did it go? And the response was the number three. And I was like, did we have a scale on there? Did you get three sales?

Was that three out of five, three out of 10, three out of three, right. Like, I don't know what that means. Um, but you know, there's just, you know, the launch squad is talking launching, right. And it's different than sending out a few emails and, and hoping and praying that you get some sales from it. So.

Amisha: Yes. Yes. There's definitely strategy and science and all the things.

Katie: Yup. Yup. Um, so. So you alluded to it earlier, and I was glad to hear you say it. Um, you know, a lot of what we do is like really heart-based approach to sales and marketing and doing business that you feel aligned with and stop following advice. Quote, unquote, wealthy marketers online that are marketing in a way that gives you the heebie-jeebies.

Right. So we just had a guest on about this the other day as well. Um, So like, how, you know, in, in your learning and your work with others, you know, where's that edge for you and how do you help people kind of write, copy that's persuasive. That's not in that heebie-jeebies kind of way.

Amisha: oh, wow. Um, it's really it's really, so I think first thing as a copywriter, you need to have your own values, their boundaries. On the N you know, on the first discovery call or something, when you were just kinda like, you know, trying each other out to see, like, if there's even a fit there, I make it sure that, Hey, I write personality based copy.

So I'm going to take a lot of references from your story. You know, your day to day, your likes dislikes could be something as weird as like, you know, I don't know. Well, whatever something, your weirdness, your quirkiness, we're going to like inject that and make it more personable. So your audience connects with you.

That's the copywriter I write. I do not write last chance. Only doors are closing. If you don't get this, you're not serious about your business. I mean, we've heard all of those things and I'm like, I am not your copywriter for that. And you know, if you're not doing this, it's your fault kind of thing. I don't like to write.

Copy that way. I'm not

Jeffrey: on the sale, you suck.

Amisha: we've seen so much of

Jeffrey: want to suck. I don't want to suck on

Amisha: know, like you're not serious about growing your business or all those things and all those things that make us feel terrible. Like even the bonuses, there's been so much about that as well. Right? Like, um, this bonus we're taking it away.

If you don't enroll. I mean, this is like a four figure program. If you're just giving someone like a day to think about bonuses and, you know, making them feel bad that they're not serious and we're going to take it away, it just brings up a lot of. Right. So I tell them, I'm very clear that this is the copy I write.

There needs to be empathy. There needs to be personality. There's none of that hard pushing sale, kind of a thing, uh, has to be inclusive. I'm still learning. I'm not perfect. And I get that, but, and so funnily enough, even the clients that I attract are more in alignment with that kind of marketing. Clients who don't understand that, uh, you know, all about like the hard sales, they, they w it's not a match.

And we get that. We just part ways like, okay, this is not going to work. We need someone who's more aggressive in their copywriting approach and the way they market. And if there's no alignment there, there's no value match, then it's a no for me. Um, so if that answers the question, so if

Jeffrey: Yeah. So H how, let me ask you this. How do you balance the concepts of, uh, scarcity urgency and those kinds of things without the pushiness and the coercion and all that kind of stuff? Like how do you still weave that in there?

Amisha: um, that's a great question. So in terms of, um, the scarcity. There's not going to be one of those emails coming up, like, you know, Hey, we have 10 spots and like, oh, by the way, my CRM shut down. So I'm opening this up and, and, you know, there's none of that. Like, there's a few more people joining the program after the doors are closed.

They're close. The other thing I like to do, and I've done this for my lunch as well. And it worked really well. I, and some of my clients are on board with this. They say like, Hey, everything you need to learn about so-and-so topic. You're going to learn. If you go through my blog posts through my content and through what others are doing, you're awesome where you are.

You're okay. If you don't invest today, you're going to learn this stuff. Anyway, you don't have to invest if this is not the right fit for you at this time. Right. The other thing I like to make clear, And I do this for my launches. And if clients aligned with this, that this is not the last time you have a chance to get into this program, I will be launching again.

I just don't know when, but this is not one of those things. Like you snooze you lose. There's definitely going to be a comeback of this, but if this is not the right time for you, if you're tight on funds, if you need to like run into credit cards, I definitely don't want you in this program. You know, you, you have a responsibility to pay your bills and take care of your essential living needs instead of like learning to stuff from me, because this is not going to make you a better marketer or a better whatever.

You can still learn this stuff for free. You can stick around. So I like to bring in, you know, a lot of that there is urgency, but there's empathy Laden in there as well. Like this is not one and done. I will be coming back or you can just learn from my free stuff.

Jeffrey: And I think for anybody out there who is witnessing a launch and thinking that the last time that person's ever going to launch, it's just not true.

Amisha: Yeah. One of the other things is like, if I'm launching, like my launch is coming up and I know that the price is going to go up a little bit. I'm going to, I'm already going to prepare my audience a month in advance.

Jeffrey: Mm.

Amisha: Hey, I'm launching. I don't want to, you know, like give you a sticker shock that just the week off, like the open cart week, like, Hey, the prices have gone, gone up.

I'm going to prepare you in advance, like seed in that information. So you can make an informed decision by the time the cart opens. Or if I have a bonus that I'm going to like, you know, Take away. Maybe if I do, I don't, but if I do, I'm going to tell you weeks in advance that I'm going to be offering this bonus, think about it.

And you know, if this is it for you, then you, you can make an informed decision two weeks prior to the cart opening. So kind of like, you know, being very transparent that this is where it's going. This is so there's nobody snoozes. I mean, nobody loses or all that. They have all these things in place before cart opens, Hey, prices going up.

She said that it was going to go up. Fast action bonus. I already knew about this. I'm not interested so they can make those decisions beforehand.

Jeffrey: I like that. Yeah.

Amisha: Yeah. You're not penalizing anybody for anything. Like they know all of this, you know, you want to respect your audience and love them.

Jeffrey: I think that is. I don't know how to articulate this, but I think you're touching on a shift in consciousness that we're kind of experiencing where the old way is. We want to people to buy our products because they're afraid of. Of making the wrong decision. And now we're moving into a paradigm where we want people to buy our products because we know it can help them and we want to help them.

Right. And to do that, we kind of honor that they're smart and that they don't need to be afraid and that they can still make this decision without.

Amisha: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And you know, I mean, you want to give somebody, like, if you're raising the price, you want to give someone like, after the webinar, right? Like fast action webinar bonus. This, this goes away. If you don't buy right now. Well, if it's a four figure investment, how can I make that decision?

Like by tonight when I have to talk to my spouse,

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Katie: Yeah.

Amisha: it, it's just something that it doesn't sit well with me. Like, and I know there is, unfortunately they're not going away. Right. They still work. But yeah, it's going to take some time to like, kind of like have those go away altogether. And it also depends on your audience.

Like if you are working with parents maybe, or moms, you know, that kind of like those tactics may not work, but if you're working to say, you know, with. I don't know more of the wealth management business owners that may work. And if they're earning, you know, they're, these are six and seven figure business owners.

They can make those decisions. Okay, fine. Then, you know, unleash on them, but know your audience, know how they're going to make those decisions.

Katie: Yep. I I've, uh, I've I've tried to personally find my way of like, I respect the need for urgency and I respect the need for fast action. I just started doing it in a way that made me feel better. And so for me, it's 24 hours. You have to buy this in 24 hours and that gives them the time to sit with.

Uh, to talk to their partner,

Amisha: Yes.

Katie: So, and I like the transparency, you know, w we're talking about doing a collaboration with someone coming up here and, you know, we were talking about the web page and I was like, you know, when they get on the call with me, I want them to have seen the webpage and see their three options and how much it's going to cost so that when we get on the phone, none of that is a shock,

Jeffrey: We're not breaking the news.

Katie: They've they've kind of steadied their energy. This is what really works too. They've gotten used to. Okay. So we're looking at, you know, this many thousand or this many thousand dollars, right? And like, you always kind of in your head for me anyway, as a buyer, I'll always make my decision quickly.

Like I want that middle one, or I want that high one and then I'll go into the conversation and then maybe I'll make a different decision. Anyway, I like that transparency and I like people to have 24 hours while still keeping that like sense of urgency. And I do, um, I really don't like, and I see even mentors that I've hired do this, and I'm like, Ugh.

And it's kind of what you alluded to. Like the bonuses are going away. And then at the end of the launch, they're like, by the way, everyone gets all the bonuses

Amisha: that's the

Katie: like, well, that is so weird. Like why did it, you know? And so it's like, Yeah. okay. Everyone's happy, quote unquote. But you really made people make that fast decision.

Um, you know, and, and they

Jeffrey: Under pressure.

Katie: Yeah.

And like, and now that wasn't even needed. Right. So that kind of stuff. Right. Or, you know, the whole like, oh, whoops. We sent the wrong link. So we decided to open it up again, like, oh, that stuff, um,

Amisha: persuasion gone wrong.

Katie: Yeah. And again, as, as a salesperson, it's like, Hey, you got your goals and you want to meet your goals.

Right? So I've worked in a lot of launch live launch models behind the scenes in a sales capacity. And we say the cart closes on Tuesday, but we had on the team like, Hey, if they book a call with you, but the call is after Tuesday. Give them the offer, right? Like things like that. Um, and so there's, there's a way around it.

And like, you can make personal phone calls and make An exception, but to announce the exception to your whole list, um, it feels a little, a little weird. I'd rather make an exception for someone that's been showing me, they're really interested and they just needed a little bit more time. right.

And that's where I bring the heart into my business.

Um, and so when people say like, oh, there's no integrity in that. I'm like, well, but my, the point of my business is. Boutique heart-based connection and I get to make up the rules whenever I want.

Amisha: Yes. Yeah. And it's empathy, right. You're leading with empathy right there. Like they need that conversation with you before they can make that decision. Okay. So yeah. You got to give them

Katie: super confident because if they're not, this is the refund requests. And again, from a sales perspective, it takes way more time to deal with the refund requests and trying to get them back in. You'd be better off getting them to be a hundred percent all in when they say Yes,

Amisha: totally.

Katie: Yep. Um, all right. I wanted to, you know, we were kind of doing a little slew thing on you before we got on the podcast. And one of the things that caught our attention was, you know, you really talking about how to land big clients, right? Like, and I think it's really like, how do we get people out of the, oh, I'm going to sell this course for a hundred bucks or, you know, and you're like, oh, we could make you a lot more money if you made your offer.

Right or targeted different. So how do you teach people, um, to land big clients? Quote unquote.

Amisha: um, how do I teach people to land big clients?

Katie: Yeah.

Amisha: What are the ways you can do that. And I'm a big proponent of cold pitching, and I've had some really successful clients coming through the door because I sent these really good cold pitches if I say so myself, but, and I have copywriting packages, launch copy packages there that are in five figures and beyond, because again, it's not just writing the copy.

I am really into your business and doing, offering all of that stuff. So for example, if I'm talking to a prospect. They got excited by my cold pitch. And they said, okay, let's connect. So one of the ways I convert them is like, Hey, I understand the five figure investment may be a bit much for you because you don't even know me.

And, uh, you know, I, it was just an email pitch. Um, how about we do an audit? Give me your funnel or give me your sales page. Let me look at it. And you know, this is what I'm going to charge you. And I will tell you, I will give you all my recommendations if you will. You can implement them. And I will credit you towards that audit PA uh, the sales package, the sales copy package.

Uh, and if you don't like, and if you think you are okay with those recommendations and you want to make those changes yourself and you don't want. That's fine too. Is total your decision. And just saying that feels so much like, oh my gosh, that sounds, that sounds great. Actually, can we get started? So, and for me as a copywriter, I'm not really putting in all my manual labor for, you know, Something that I don't know it's going to pan out or not, but at the same time, I'm just using my strategic brain.

It's less of the finger to keyboard labor, and is just my thinking capacity, telling my client like, Hey, this is what I think we could do for you. And when they get that, they automatically know when they get the audit report. Like, oh my gosh, this is a strategic thing. Not just an order taker and printing up, you know, my headline and writing some really smart, cute copy.

It's not just that it's so much bigger than that when I can like convince them to do that and, you know, see that, uh, that's when there's a mindset shift in their brain, like, okay, if I hire her, she's only not only. Spruce up my copy or write better copy. She's going to look at everything else that's going on.

So that's one of the ways that I have landed a bigger ticket clients. Um, just getting my foot in the door, through auditing their stuff.

Jeffrey: I love that.

Katie: That's great. It's a great example of how people really want to get started with you on a lower level. Right. They don't want to go from zero to, you know,

Amisha: 10 K.

Katie: money. Yeah. Like they're, they're, they're nervous to do that, you know? So, um, Yeah.

so that's, that's a great, that's a great solution. I think audits are, um, You know. I've done similar stuff.

I audit their offer. I'm like, just show me what you got. Right. What's the offer. And I like helping people craft the bonuses and things that make sense for the offer. right. Well, like a lot of the audience that I work with, it may be their first time launching. And I remember for me, my first time launching, it was like, the coach was like, just pick a lead magnet and get it out there and start building your list.

Right. And just. You know.

um, whatever you have for bonuses, you know, do you have any recorded, blah, blah, blah. Right. Just, just pop that in there. And I understand why she was saying that because it was kind of like do it in perfectly and learn and it made me do it right. So I appreciate that for what it was, but then people like Jeffrey had me come in and fix.

Those really bad errors, because if you have a lead magnet that doesn't make any sense, or it's not connected to, or creating demand and desire for your offer, that it's not the right lead magnet. Right. And your bonuses need to achieve something that your buyers emotionally. Or physically neat.

Amisha: Yes.

Katie: just be a, Hey, I've got this Bob Proctor recording, right?

Like, great.

Amisha: know.

Katie: why do I need that? Right. But if, but if it's like, Hey, my people are horrible time management, and that's why I'm giving you my time management, blah, blah, blah. So that you have the time to do these things. Now that solves a problem. So that those are the little things that I'm picking up on and looking at their offer going.

Hmm. No. So, but I love audits. Um, I think audits are great. Way to make connections and to serve people now, do you charge them for that audit?

Amisha: Yes I do. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie: And then you credit them if they decide to move forward.

Amisha: right?

Jeffrey: um,

Katie: always love that model too. People love when you can save money and you're like, I would've done it anyway with the bigger package.


Amisha: Exactly. It's an incentive and you're in sales. So you know, that, that like, oh, okay. Right. And they're prone to move quicker when you presented that way.

Katie: Yup. And I mean, so it is that it's persuasion, but they win, right? Like that's the thing. So that's like a good example of like heart-based persuasion.

Amisha: exactly. Right. It's like a win-win for both.

Katie: Yeah.

Um, so speaking of persuasion, I wanted to hear, um, I saw that you had a blog around, you know, persuasive elements to create those Clickworthy headlines. And I wanted to talk about it today because I know it's not your favorite thing, but I think headline. It's such an important part of the online world, you know, in marketing, whether, you know, subject lines, headlines, um, in, in the use of those.

And, uh, I don't think people quite understand how to do it. So, um, I don't know if you have those off the top of your head or um, even like resources that you learned from that can help people understand persuasion.

Amisha: Yeah. So I, and I, I always talk with sales page. Uh, you know, sales page is running in my head because I write sales copy all the time. There are many ways you can do this, but, and I also have a lead magnet. It gives you this information. So if you guys want to download that, uh, later on, um, it's, uh, I have come across, let me just bring it up.

I have it right in front of me. If you can give me a second to look it up.

Jeffrey: And we'll link. Uh, we'll get that link from you and put it in

Katie: yeah. the free, yep. Yep.

Amisha: Yeah. Yeah. So give me a

Katie: I have this for me. If I have to remember a number of things, I always remember up. to one leftover, like, you know, if I have to remember eight, I remember the seven and I'm like, what's the eighth one. I don't know what that is. That has been a block of mine for like a lifetime.

Amisha: I love it. Yeah. So let me give you a few. Formulas formulae. However, when it comes to like writing headlines, you know, and that's definitely that works on sales pages. Um, obviously the first one is that, you know, the benefit outcome, one promise oriented question. Questions always work really well in headlines because you know, you've got the reader and they're like, they want to answer it.

They want to finish that thought. So, you know, what, if you could, I'll give you an example of what, if you could potty train your toddler in three days, it's very specific. You're speaking to a very specific promise, you know, an outcome and it's to a mom who's like, you know, frustrated with her potty training efforts is like, oh my gosh, I, I need that.

Right. Or what, if you could write an email that makes you a thousand dollars within an hour of sending it, that's an outcome that somebody who is. An email marketer, or even a course creator once like, oh, I can send an email and I'll make me a thousand dollars. Hopefully they're offered a solid, but that's another conversation. Right. And the other one is, uh, I like this one too. You can ask the reader to imagine or paint a pretty picture.

Jeffrey: Um,

Amisha: uh, you know, imagine if you could get a desirable outcome or that promise. So it could look like, um, imagine if you never have to clean your bathroom again. I mean, I don't know. I'd love, I would

Jeffrey: I'm in, I'm in.

Amisha: write or imagine that.

Katie: You know, clean the bathrooms.

Amisha: Right. Exactly. Like, I, I mean, I don't either, but like someone who would like I live, I

Katie: Oh yeah.

Amisha: again. All

Katie: Oh, yeah. I used to own a home with four bathrooms. So I would say yes to that

Amisha: then number three, uh, on that list is, you know, ask a thought provoking question to drive in to answer or at least think about answering. So, you know, um, what is the difference between. questions always work. I don't know why, what it is, but it just does. So what is the single most important thing that separates Facebook ad agencies who thrive in recessions in one?

So we just can't stay afloat, no matter the economy, climate that's long, but target. But compelling. Yeah. And it's like, what's the difference? What are they doing that I'm not, if I'm, you know, in the ladder, you can ask a knife, twisting question, you can highlight the pain. And, uh, you know, are you making these mistakes when presenting in front of an audience or, you know, do you get socially awkward in crowds or are you overlook this ones?

This one I like, are you getting overlooked for promotion all the time? So, you know, it's, it's twisting the pain. I don't use a lot of that anymore because I like, you know, I don't want to like kind of agitate on the pain all the time, but you can, if you want to, uh, the last one, uh, you can command your audience to do something that, uh, pertains to your offer.

It's so it's benefit driven. So for example, um, give us a few hours and we'll have you create your 30 day launch content plan There is one by Rameet Satie who I love because you writes a really compelling sales page headlines. So he has one that says reach inside my private vault and use 50 of my best word for word, email scripts to reach the unreachable, get the unbeatable, send the perfect message.


Katie: Mm.

Amisha: So you're just telling them what to do, like reach, get, give us, like you're commanding your audience, but it's really still benefit oriented. It's still about them. So that's the other thing, make the headlines about them for a headline like this, you want to use action words, right? Like watch get, learn, multiply, skyrocket, master that that would get their attention.


Jeffrey: Love it.

Katie: Yeah.

I bet people were taking notes during that. I hope they were because, um, I find that when I'm crafting, um, an email or any copy, my head is not on the headline, right? Like when I'm writing content, I'm not thinking marketing, so to speak. And so it's like I have to come back to it or have my headline done ahead of time and write from that perspective.

But for some reason, my brain just cannot do both at the same time.

Amisha: Yeah. And it's for me with subject lines, I write emails all the time. I hate and I have to own this fact, I hate writing subject lines. I have to like really dig deep and, you know, and it's more what the west changes like, you know, open rates, tanking and whatnot. It's like, oh, well, how can I make this more compelling?

So yeah, I have to really dig deep.

Katie: Oh, my God and subject lines are so important because it's heartbreaking when you write a really great email and nobody sees it.

Amisha: Yes. We've heard about the click baity stuff. I'm like, okay. Let's do, like, I just sent an email out to my list. Last week in subject line was taking eight weeks off. I wasn't taking eight weeks off, but it got them to open. They're like, oh, and I got some fuel replaced. Like I thought you were taking eight weeks off.

I'm like, I'm like, then you should have read the body that said, Nope, I'm not biking. It weak socks. I wish I was. And the rest was a story, so, but yeah,

Katie: that's so great. Cause I think people get stuck on the fact they think their subject line has to H. or be like, tell the truth of what this message is about. And all it has to do is get people to open the damn email. That's all it has to do.

Amisha: That's all it has to do.

Katie: sort of, you know, hook or surprising thing. Um, and like my personal favorite, um, is, uh, how to write copy that sells Ray Edwards. I loved that resource of just anytime I'm in a writer's block, I just have to grab a book off a shelf, open it to any page. I just let my intuition guide me and go, oh, there sometimes it's just one word. What did I write that we were, we were, um, we're creating a summit right now and I just grabbed like, one of my favorite things to do is. to go to Amazon and look as if I am the.

Potential buyer. And I'm looking for a book on whatever I'm trying to sell. Right. And then I'll just look at the sub headlines of those books and grab words from there that speaks to me.

Amisha: I love it.

Katie: and I can't think now what the word was, but I was like, oh, that's the word? you know? And even when I put it in the title and Jeffrey was like, oh, that's a good word.

I'm like, I grabbed that from Amazon.

Amisha: you look for inspiration, right? Wherever you can use them.

Katie: That's. Yeah.

and that my worst thing is a blank page. And so if I. Like get assistance in any way to get past that hurdle. Then I can usually put the binaural beats on my head phones and Dive in. and I, I just had a client the other day and she's facing, um, Cancer treatments.

And so she's just trying to get her life and her business Ready? to be able to take that time off or whatever. And one of the things she has to do is write her lead magnet and she's got a team that's going to design it and get it out. So she says to do the content and she's like, oh, you know, I don't know, maybe by Friday.

And I'm like, I am telling you put binaural beats in your ears, set a timer for 45 minutes and you will get it done. It's the amount of energy we put into like, oh, not now I'm going to do that.

Amisha: yeah,

Katie: Um, it's sometimes it's like the binaural beats for me. It just makes me do the thing that I have been avoiding.

Amisha: yeah, yeah, yeah. There's uh, yeah, they, they work. I love them.

Katie: Yeah, Yeah, Um, awesome. So, all right. We also wanted to dive in, um, to, you know, what I know on a sales page and, and really landing pages, any sort of case study or testimonial or social screenshot. Does a world of good. W. And so we're curious, like how do you advise people to get quote unquote good testimonials or to write a good case study?

Cause sometimes, you know, I'll give my people a template of how to write the testimonial, but then they all sound like before I worked with Katie, I was feeling blah, blah, blah. When I worked with Katie, you know, it's kind of like reminds me of my my second graders, you know, writing curriculum All at all. working with Katie was good. Okay.

Amisha: I know. Right. And then people don't really believe so much of that because it's like, I don't know if this is for me. It's too. Templatey they see right through it. And I have something and this is something I teach in my course. And I would love to just share with you. What do I think works as a great testimonial.

I'm just looking that, give me a minute. I'm just looking that up, but basically what it is is there needs to be something like, um, there's a before and after story, I have this on my blog, actually there's a before and after story, if you can capture that, um, there is obviously the results. Right. You always want to have the, uh, the results, uh, what are specific results somebody got working with you, uh, have that, what is the, what has the experience been like?

I mean, there's a little bit, there's little, uh, weight that we give to the experience of being in a program. But I think it's so much important, especially if you're in a space where there are other people teaching, how to launch, like I could be in a program or a bootcamp, which will help me launch my course and I could be like completely stressed out.

It could be. My energy is depleting level energy. I'm frustrated. I'm stressed. I can't think straight or I could be in a awesome. A group coaching program would, you're doing the same thing, but I feel like, oh my gosh, this feels great. Like I am operating at my best level. I, you know, I feel calm because launches by itself is a, I think it's a trigger word anyway.

A lot of, lot of us. Right. So if I can look at experientially, which one was better, like I wanna, I, I wanna up. Thing and like a more calm way where I'm happy and it's fun. It's not as crazy. And it's not like I had these 2:00 AM sweats. So I think experience also counts. Like, if you can bring that also to the thing, like, I think a lot of people are looking for those things.

Like what's the experience going to be like, so they will ask somebody else, like, how was the program like benefits. Results aside, like, what was the experience like if you know, is she, is it hard? Is it like, you know, does it, is it gonna work for me? So you want to kind of like tap into a little bit of that as well.

The rest is really how you're formatting that testimonial on your sales page. It's really. I see this happen all the time. Like people do it wrong. You need to like put in the most important thing that said in that testimonial, whatever they say and kind of like make a mini headline off it and put it there because a lot of people skim, they don't read everything.

So if you can, like, you know, person's headshot and right next to the person's headshot, there is. Headline or mini headline, like a testimonial headline, very compelling one. It's going to stop somebody in the tracks and they will want to read everything else. They're like the rest of what it says. Uh, you definitely want to highlight some important things because if it's like, you know, one of those Facebook screenshots, which you get with permission and you're posting that like organic social proof, you want to highlight some of the things that have been said.

So it stands out again. People who are skimming this information going through the page, it stands out and they can like visually understand like, oh, they did this. And they did that. So that always helps. Um, if you have a lot of testimonials, like, oh my gosh, like, you know, I think Amy Porterfield did this for her DCA launch.

She has a separate landing page altogether where you can go there and you can kind of filter your selections. Like, I don't know. I don't remember off the top of my head, how she did it.

Jeffrey: Oh, wow.

Amisha: Maybe if you're a beginner, intermediate expert in your content or whatever, and you know, you filter those choices and those people pop up.

Like people who've been through our program who fit that profile. And this is, especially if you've got like so many testimonials, you can't put them, you can't do them justice, like on your sales page. And you want to like lead the reader to a separate landing page to go through it at their own time. And I'm one of those people who will do that because I want to know.

Psychos. Oh, well, would wouldn't like read every testimonial, look at that person. Very important. You want to obviously put their name, but also the name of the company, because I am one of those people, like if I see a program and if I'm interested in, if I see those testimonials, I want to Snoop around and see like, where do these people work and what is their business like?

And I kind of like stopped them. So you want to put that it makes you look more legitimate. So yeah. And people are smart.

Jeffrey: having that, having that many testimonials that'd be a great problem.

Amisha: Yeah, right. And of course Amy, well, she has that audience reach too, so she can

Katie: no more.

Jeffrey: Yeah.

Amisha: Yeah. So,

Katie: Yep.

Jeffrey: awesome Ameesha um, where can people get ahold of you? This, this has been really great, extremely helpful for a lot of people. How can people connect with.

Amisha: Well, you can find me on my website, the copy I am also always available on Instagram. That's my social media platform of choice. You can find me there. Same handle at the copy crew and, uh, yeah. And lower your expectations because I have started doing reels. They're not fun. But there are there.

Cause my social media person, she makes me want to do them. She like, I just do it. Okay. I'll do it. I promise.

Jeffrey: Uh, that's so good. That's so good. I think we're struggling with that too.

Amisha: Yeah. It's yeah, you just have to get over it.

Jeffrey: Any final thoughts to wrap this up and call this episode complete.

Amisha: yeah, I think, uh, have fun and always be testing. Whether it's your funnel or your marketing or your copy, nothing is always set in stone. Like, you know, I may have given you a headline formula today, but you may find out that it may not work. So feel free to test. It's an experiment. And I think the more you approach your launches and things like this in the online marketing space, as this is an experiment, and we're going to see where this goes, the more funner, calmer, better entrepreneurial be.

And, uh, you know, your family can live with you.

Jeffrey: I love that.

Katie: Awesome. Those, those, you know, that those are true words. And it's funny. Um, how different I hear the word experiment than I do test. Everybody always says, you've got to test it. You got to test it. And I get this like error. I don't want to test it, but when you say the experiment, I'm like, okay,

Amisha: Yeah.

Jeffrey: I look at it sounds fun.

Amisha: Yeah. Like, yeah. Change your hair color

Katie: Awesome. Well, we'll go ahead and put in the show notes, the link to, you know, your upcoming group program on auditing, and then you also had a free gift you were going to promote or, um, for ha for headlines. Was that what that

Amisha: Yes. Yeah.

Katie: Um, so we'll put all that in the show notes and a link up your social and thank you so much for being here.

It's been a pleasure to talk shop with someone who gets it.

Amisha: Awesome. Same here. I had a blast. Thank you for having me.

Jeffrey: you. And thank you everyone for joining us. If you enjoy this episode, please leave us a five-star review and hit that subscribe button, and you can check out all the show notes and how to connect with Ameesha at the launch squad, forward slash episode 61. We'll see you next time.

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About the Show

The Lighten Your Launch Podcast is for Coaches and Course Creators who want a lighter online launch experience. Maybe you’ve done a few launches already, and feel exhausted just thinking about it! Or, it’s been one of your goals, but you don’t know where to start.

Tune in to learn from our team of experts, The Launch Squad, who aren’t afraid to dig into all aspects of launching: sales, strategy, technology, mindset, funnels, and even a bit of woo to get you through the toughest times. Let’s put a stop to perfectionism and procrastination, and finally take your launch from intimidating to money-making!