Today we want to talk about bringing more JOY into your life AND how you do business.

Our guest today is a true marketer and community builder at heart. She uses her years of experience and expertise to help coaches and consultants around the world build businesses they love at the Joyful Business Revolution, a company founded by M.Shannon Hernandez. They help coaches and consultants go from The Invisible Expert to The Joyful CEO who is leading a world-class business that does not tax your time, energy, or financial resources.

Her experiences are many! She has raced cars, been a radio DJ, built sales and marketing teams, worked at a group home to support adults with mental illness, started a youth group, been a military spouse – just to name a few. She has a background in marketing, communications, engagement, community development, and organizational growth.

She’s the co-host of the Grow Your Business For Good Podcast.

When this cat mom isn’t helping clients with their Joyful Marketing she can be found finding her joy while exploring her own backyard, hanging out on her boat, visiting as many wineries as possible, and/or traveling the world.

Please welcome to the show, Amy Hager!

Connect with Amy at:

Amy’s Website

Create JOYFUL marketing that attracts an abundance of your perfect-fit clients in The Confident Expert Program.

Leverage your Content Personality™ to create MAGNETIC MESSAGING (no bland, safe content allowed here!) – so that you know exactly what type of content to focus on in The Content Personality Club.
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[00:00:00] Jeffrey: Welcome to the light, your launch podcast. Today, we're talking about evolving from the invisible expert to the joyful CEO. Stay tuned.

[00:00:56] Jeffrey: Welcome back to the show. I'm Jeffrey summer. I'm back again with Katie Collins. And today we wanna talk about bringing more joy into your life and how you do business. So Katie, can you please introduce our special.

[00:01:10] Katie: Yes, a true marketer and community builder at heart. She uses her years of experience and expertise to help coaches and consultants around the world. Build businesses. They love at the joyful business revolution, a company founded by M Shannon Hernandez. They help coaches and consultants go from the invisible expert to the joyful CEO who is leading a world class business that does not tax your time, energy or financial resources.

Her experiences are many. She has raced cars, been a radio DJ. Built sales and marketing teams worked at a group home to support adults with mental illness, started a youth group, Ben, a military spouse, just to name a few. She has a background in marketing communications, engagement, community development, and organizational growth.

She is the co-host of the grow your business for good podcast. When this cat mom, isn't helping clients with their joyful marketing, she can be found, finding her joy while exploring her own backyard, hanging out on her boat, visiting as many wineries as possible and, or traveling the

world. Welcome to the show.

Amy Hager.

[00:02:21] Amy: Hi. Thank you. Wow.

Great introduction.

[00:02:27] Katie: We try. We try

[00:02:30] Amy: you might need to send that to me so I can use it on other shows.

[00:02:36] Katie: you

[00:02:36] Jeffrey: We, uh, we sell these 150 bucks a pop.

[00:02:39] Amy: I see how you are. Jeffrey smart, man. Smart man.

[00:02:45] Katie: Awesome. Well, Amy, I know, You know, you've been a part of the joyful revolution brand since it began. Um, tell us how you and Shannon met and what made you come together as a duo.

[00:02:58] Amy: Yeah, totally. And just to make sure it's the joyful business revolution, if you are Googling and you don't get it right. Um, yeah, no worries.

So it's funny because when Shannon quit teaching, she was a teacher up in New York.

Um, I was the executive director of the beam breakfast association, Virginia, and she decided.

She one had some interest in maybe owning a, B, B, and two. She knew she was a great teacher of writing and blogging.

So she started to go on this series of teaching blog, writing to innkeepers and New Jersey found her first and then word spread like wildfire fire along the east coast. And I was like, well, I gotta B bring this woman down to my conference.

My board was like, she's never owned a, B and B. She doesn't know what she's talking about. We're gonna put her in the last session, the smallest room all the way back in the corner of the conference. And I was like, I mean, I guess I wouldn't recommend her if I didn't think she was awesome, but whatev you do you. And so we did that and her room was over filling. Like if you could imagine a bunch of innkeepers in the hallway, like stretching their necks out so that they could hear the goodness that she was

dropping. So the next year I invited her back as my keynote speaker and that's just kind of how our friendship and our bond formed originally.

And I stayed in the nonprofit space for about six years after that. And I. Using the content personality quiz to build out my membership development teams, my marketing teams within the nonprofit space.

And when I was like, kind of done with that, I went to Shannon and I was like, listen, I've been using your shit for a while.

And I've been in your community for a while.

I I think it's time we partner together and like rock this thing and, you know, stars aligned and it worked out really well. And I think if you fast forward what like three and a half years later now, like it's amazing what we've been able to do as a dynamic duo.

[00:04:55] Katie: Mm-hmm

[00:04:57] Amy: So

yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:58] Katie: yeah. From one dynamic duo to the other, kudos to you.

[00:05:04] Jeffrey: the teaming up. All about it. Yeah. Amen.

[00:05:05] Amy: I love it.

[00:05:06] Katie: yeah. Um, awesome. Well, that's awesome. And you know, I

was reading a little bit about Shannon, um, and, uh, we actually have some mutual friends, so she spent on my radar for a while.

Um, and. Yeah, I just, you know, the same, I come from that same teacher background

and just being like, okay, show me something else.

And I think being a teacher has So many transferable skills to be an

[00:05:30] Amy: Oh, totally. yeah,

[00:05:32] Katie: know, and to be able to show up and, and teach others how to do stuff or to inspire people to, you know, get shit done. right. Um, and also just really understanding the importance of partnerships.

Um, and that's, I think one of the things that really makes a business strong is having more than one person. More than one style.


So like for our duo, you know, Jeffrey is the tech guy, right.

He can engineer like the tech space and then I'm over here with a different brain altogether.

[00:06:03] Amy: Yeah,

[00:06:04] Katie: and it works really well for us to, um, problem solve together because we have totally different angles and, um, you know, it's just a well rounded approach.


[00:06:14] Amy: Yeah, And I I really think too with our partnership with Shannon being a teacher and me being involved in so many businesses and starting so many businesses over my career and having like this young entrepreneurial spirit, I mean, I was basically raising money at the rifle age of nine, so I could buy goat cart, tires and raise goat carts.

So when you really combine those two forces, it really is neat to see what we can develop to help our clients. But then also you are right Katie, like that different perspective.

And I know there's times where like, people are more Shannon's people or people are more my people, but the fact that we can make that individual connection is just so key.

[00:06:55] Katie: Yep. Yep. Awesome. Awesome. All right. So I read your mantra. We're gonna swear here. So if you've got kids in the car, turn it down. um, but the mantra you guys seem to live by is if it ain't joyful, we ain't doing that shit.

so tell, us, tell us about that, because I know there are certain things in business that I don't enjoy doing. Um, but I feel like I have to do, um, book bookkeeping for one. I mean, I have a bookkeeper, but even to do the notes, to give the bookkeeper, I'm like, Ugh.

[00:07:28] Amy: right, right.


[00:07:30] Katie: Um, so tell, tell me how that mantra works within your business.

[00:07:34] Amy: Yeah. And so I think a lot of times what we find is when we start working with people, they're like, oh, I have to do this. I have to do my bookkeeping. I have to do all the marketing. I have to be on the social media channels. I have to show up live. I have to write all the above.

Right. Okay, good. So you're, you're you smell what I'm cooking here.

And so when we really focus on. What roots us enjoy what we enjoy and what we want to be aligned with.

Then we do have to figure out solutions for those other things, or we call it a ritual, a joy ritual. And so Katie, one thing I do after I do my bookkeeping, cause I just did it last night, got my, you know, everything ready so that they can do the invoicing.

Do. Expenses. Um, you know, I, I made myself a little treat. They're these little snicker dates and I dip 'em in chocolate and peanut butter. They're delicious. And that was my joy ritual. After the thing that I just don't enjoy, there are things that we just, all our joy money retreat.

We know your business and your life is just molded together.

And so we wanna look at your entire day, from the time you open your eyes and wake up until you go to bed and find those joyful moments. And so every day I make sure that I make myself a really great cup of coffee and I sit and gaze out those windows behind me that I have. Cause we have a beautiful view with trees that overlook the lake.

And I just take a few minutes. And it's not that every minute in life is gonna be so exploding with joy. We know that's not realistic, right.

But to make sure you treasure those micro minutes that are joyful in your day and to guide your day through joyful moments and really figure out then how to navigate those things that maybe you don't love as much.

So it is kind of cool when we get people together at a joy money retreat. It's five days where we're really exploring.

Business life, your joy, the alignment, and what may need to be shift, what needs to shift in your day. Maybe it's getting a house cleaner because it's a point of tension between you and your spouse.

And you're just always feeling guilty about it.

And then moving on and letting go of that instead of dwelling and spinning and getting plan your next best steps so that you could have that joyful day.

[00:09:56] Jeffrey: Um, I, I want to talk about that really quick.

I think that's a wonderful point. What, What, would you say to those people who just heard that and say, well, I can't afford a housekeeper like this. This is bogus. I right. Where, Where, does, where do you stand there?

[00:10:11] Amy: And so what we really look at, and again, we do work with our clients for about a year is we're looking at, are they actually price for profit and we've surveyed, um, quite a bit. And we usually find in our group, 95% of entrepreneurs are not actually priced for profit. They're not even paying

[00:10:32] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm

[00:10:33] Amy: And so that's where we first have to start.

Of course, I want you to hire the cleaner, but let's be realistic if you're not able to afford it. Why aren't you able to afford it? And so we really look at that as our starting place too first, jeffrey.

[00:10:48] Jeffrey: I love that. I love that. That's such a better question. that's a better question, right.

[00:10:53] Amy: Yeah.

Yeah. Like why can't you afford that?

And I think too, when we look at, we call this our, um, revenue roadmap. When we look at our revenue roadmap, sometimes people are like, I, you know, I don't even know why I'm making money. I don't really need to make money. And. You know, maybe they're, they've got a spouse that kind of covers all the household income or covers the basic necessities.

And so we've got some work. The way we work is we really dive in deep and look at, at line item by line item. Like, why, why are you doing this business? Why do you wanna be in service?

And of course you wanna help the most people possible, but then if you're not charging at a profitable rate, you're gonna start resenting.

there's gonna be delays in what you wanna do, because you're like, ah, you know, this client's only paying me two bucks an hour. Well, it's your business, you're the entrepreneur. You get to drive this ship.

Don't let other people tell you what you should be. You know, charging

[00:11:52] Katie: Yep.

[00:11:54] Jeffrey: So can we, can we ex yeah. Can we expand on that just a little bit? Like what what's, how do you maybe, maybe this is a too big of a conversation, but you know, where, where would you start with pricing for profit? Like what, where do we unpack that?


[00:12:15] Amy: gives a shit, what other people are pricing for their offer. Um, and they'll ask advice from people who have no idea what they do.

And so what we really do is we wanna unpack your offer, unpack how you're serving and really unpack that transformation. How do you get them from the island of stuck to the island of success?

We look at how many clients can you actually handle and manage without being overwhelmed and burnt out. Still time for the joyful things in your life.

We look at how long is a client with you? Is it a one month thing? Is it more of a long thing where it's year long?

And then once we figured out all of those pieces, then we can start about talking

[00:13:03] Jeffrey: I love

[00:13:04] Amy: and looking at them, the value that you're bringing to the table as a coach, as a consultant

and your expertise.

And once we've really uncovered that, the why and all of those things around you and your offer and your process in methodology.

and how many people you can serve and knowing what you need to bring in for revenue every month. That's then how we really determine the individual price of an offer.

[00:13:34] Jeffrey: that's huge.

[00:13:35] Katie: Yeah, that's awesome. I,

you know, I get, uh, really worked up as a sales coach. when it comes to pricing specifically and you know, I'm always like, don't let broke people, tell you how much you should charge.

[00:13:48] Amy: right.

[00:13:49] Katie: Right. If, you know, like if you're in conversation with person after person that says it's too much money, there's two things happening.

One either you haven't talked about the value well, enough of what you're providing or you're attracting people that don't make enough money to afford you. and so you've gotta shift your niche, you know, and I just helped somebody with this the other day in a Facebook group, she was talking about, um, caregivers and how you, um, when you're a caregiver, you're, you're not making any money, quote, unquote, any money in your business because you don't have the time.

And like, that was kind of her niche. And I was like, I would suggest you change, not making any money to not making the kind of money you would like if you had more time, because you don't wanna attract people that aren't making any money, they're desperate and they need your help. And yet they can't afford you.

[00:14:43] Amy: A hundred percent like that little tweak in your messaging will go a long

way. And it's not that it's gonna happen overnight, either Katie, like I do think it does take having those conversations with the people who can't afford your services at the time.

[00:14:57] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm

[00:15:01] Amy: right now isn't the right time, the investment isn't there for them.

And we get that. Um, so we still love and nurture and service them. , but I will say that getting out of your client's pocket is so terribly important because you know, you're worth in your value.

And once you start putting yourself in the client's pocket, you're really screwing up that system.

[00:15:25] Katie: What do you mean by that phrase?

[00:15:27] Amy: When you're going into conversations and thinking, oh, they can't afford this. Or when their first objection is, oh, I can't afford this.

It really then is taking that conversation back and helping them understand the value. It's not that they can't afford this. They don't want to afford this.

[00:15:44] Katie: Yeah. They're making different

[00:15:45] Amy: you, Yeah.

They're making different choices. Did you do the best service that you could.

By walking them through the value and making sure that they are aligned. And again, we're not for everybody. And, um, but it does also, like you said, Katie, it does really go back to your messaging and who you're attracting in front of you.

So if you are having conversation after conversation where they're like, it's too much, I can't afford it yet. You need to go back. You're having a messaging problem, not a sales problem.

[00:16:14] Katie: Right,

[00:16:15] Jeffrey: Yes, we we've seen clients or, or entrepreneurs turn down a, a, $5,000 offer because they quote unquote couldn't afford it and then turn around and go buy a $10,000 offer because they saw the value in what that person was selling.


[00:16:31] Katie: Yep.

[00:16:31] Amy: A hundred percent Jeffrey you've nailed.

[00:16:34] Katie: yep. Yeah, that, I mean, it, it is. So, um, I think valuable too, for people to hear. Um, the, I can't afford it when it comes to, you know, well, I don't have that money in the bank or I'm not making that kind of money in my business to afford it.

And just having that conversation, like if I, if I were to be a restaurant owner, and say, well, I'm gonna hold off on buying tables and chairs until I get some customers in to make some money, then I can afford the tables and chairs. It doesn't work that way.

So why, why is it that you insist your business needs to be in the black before you're willing to invest? and how do you plan on doing that fast?

Cuz I have a dear friend who has a really, um, you know, successful business. I, I know she's in the six figures.

Um, anyway, and, she says she bootstrapped. Every bit of it. And she says she regrets that because it

[00:17:31] Amy: Yeah. so long.

[00:17:33] Katie: Yeah. And she, you know, bootstrapped her BA her grad school. Right. Like worked full time. I mean, and she had that, um, ability to. Work full time, go to school full time. right. But like, then she burnt out And it just took her so long to get to that six figures.

And I really saw myself go through that same thing where I was like, oh, I'm not gonna take, you know, debt. And then finally realizing, oh yeah. I am because I need, I need some help.

[00:18:04] Jeffrey: all the, while there are banks and lenders chomping at the bit for those success stories,

[00:18:11] Amy: Yeah.

[00:18:12] Jeffrey: right. They love it when they're able to lend an entrepreneur or a business money and see them successful. And then they can say, Hey look, our success story. Look what they did because they could do it faster with capital.

[00:18:25] Katie: And you know, it's not always just investing in your business, but investing in yourself. Right.

Like right now I'm watching my friend invest quite a bit of money in his health. And it's, you know, none of it's covered by insurance. And I see all the time in these groups, you know, women that are like, I'm looking for somebody to help me with my hormones.

My doctor is not doing anything. You know, they recommended x, Y, z, and insurance won't cover it. And it's like, you've gotta get out of the mindset of wanting it to be free or cheap

[00:18:56] Amy: right.

[00:18:56] Katie: get into the mindset of what do you need and what, where will it get you And is it worth the investment in yourself?

To get there.

[00:19:05] Jeffrey: and, and here's the thing. And in my opinion, and, and I think Amy you'll agree with me that. When we take care of ourselves and we're able to, uh, maintain more joy, we end up attracting more

[00:19:19] Amy: Yes.

[00:19:20] Jeffrey: more

[00:19:20] Amy: Yes, exactly. And I think too, when you think about, I you know, if you just think about your friend group, we all got that friend where you're like, oh, I'm friends with them? but why am I friends with them? Like, they're just so bitter, everything's so negative or whatever it may be. Right. And so if you think about that in yourself and reflect on that in yourself, if you aren't aligned with how you're serving, how you're creating a business and how you're executing business.

Yeah, that's gonna show up so strong and you may not realize it, but that

[00:19:58] Katie: Mm-hmm

[00:20:01] Amy: stated it this way yet. Misery attracts misery.

[00:20:05] Jeffrey: oh,

yes, yes.

And joy attracts.

[00:20:09] Amy: Yeah.

[00:20:10] Katie: Yeah. So what kind of clients do you wanna work with?

[00:20:13] Jeffrey: Right.

[00:20:15] Amy: exactly.

[00:20:16] Katie: I mean, it is so refreshing to have clients. We, we have like the most amazing clients at the launch squad and it it's so refreshing to work with people that just have their personal responsibility. Right like that, do what they say they're gonna do, um, that own it when they can't say when they can't do what they said they were gonna do.

Just all of that. Um, you know, and just keeping the positive

[00:20:40] Amy: Yeah. And I love they're adults. Right?

[00:20:42] Katie: Yeah.

[00:20:43] Jeffrey: Right. Right. So, so on that subject of joy and, and, and, and, getting new clients and, leads and stuff like that, how would you, um, you know, let, let's talk about that joy in the marketing, how would you approach organic traffic that gets people's attention and, and, things

[00:20:59] Amy: yeah. Yeah. So it really, again, starts out with you. You are the answer to this, and so we have our content personality. And if you feel like you're all over the place, doing all of the things, like I mentioned before, writing blogging, going live, creating videos, doing ticky talkies, showing up on the Instagram. Like if you're doing all those things and you're not getting anywhere, take a pause. Figure out what your content personality is. It's kind of like Myers Briggs, or like an engram or anything like that, right.

Where you're really kind of diving deep into you, And once you've aligned that content creation based off of your content personality, that right energy, that right flow in the content creation, and then you're gonna find the right platform to be on.

And we really believe you could do one platform. Plus your email. And create the business that you wanna create. You don't need to be on all the platforms to really start out or to really get the momentum, to generate the leads.

And so once you've really simplify it, scale it back and root your content creation in your content personality, which is going to be, be the more joyful way of creating things.

That's when organically, you start showing up, you start showing up stronger, you start showing up better people wanna tag and share and it. And remember marketing and sales are conversations, not presentation.

[00:22:39] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm

[00:22:40] Katie: Mm. Yep. Yep. And it sounds to me like you're really giving people permission to not do all the things, because I think that is so scattered and then it's not done well. right. So.

[00:22:55] Amy: I was speaking with someone about bump with

[00:22:57] Jeffrey: that's big.

[00:23:01] Amy: followers on his YouTube channel, and I was like, wow, that's a, that's a good pot of followers. All of those things, you got 14,000 people on your YouTube channel. He's like, I need to get in front of the most eyes possible. And I was like, well, what if you were just getting in front of the right eyes possible? Like be realistic. How many new clients do you need every month? And he is like two or three. And I was like, if you're not converting two or three out of 14,000 on your YouTube, plus whatever, all the other things were that he rattled off. I was like, you need to take a step back and look at this and see what's real.

And it is a lot of relationship building. I mean, there is a lot of people selling a lot of shit out there and some of it's good shit and some it's bad shit, whether it's good or bad, there's a lot of people out there selling. And so if you are not building true relationships with your followers, true community with your audience, then yeah.

They're gonna go to somebody that they trust like and love a little bit better, even though you're like a great person to watch on YouTube and to learn from

that's all you are then to.

[00:24:13] Katie: Yep. Now, how are you guys? Um, you know, I know you've got a Facebook group. Um, I see, I, I see this. Tactic, I'll call it out there. And, and I've done it myself several years ago where you're in kind of other Facebook groups. Um, you know, you might drop content in there or some long post with some beautiful picture of yourself.

Um, and you know, and try to engage. In that way and trying to get people to come on over to your community. Is that something that you, that you guys do or recommend as a way to create more organic traffic to your already existing community? And if not, what are ways that you get other people to join your group

[00:25:01] Amy: Yes. So Katie, I'm gonna go back to, if it feels good to you then yes. Do I use that tactic? No, because I like

[00:25:11] Jeffrey: Amen.

[00:25:14] Amy: love being on social media. On the flip side. If you look at Shannon. She's so good at just striking up conversations and comments. like, it's a it's definitely a knack she has, and that's how she engages with people. And so she's very good at starting up a conversation in a community and then people end up Googling and following and finding us when you look at the best way I like to build community is I love coming on shows like.

I do so well, having conversation, being on podcasts, being on different interview series hate going in the groups, then don't do it. Let's find out a different strategy if you're totally cool with like chatting people up and like meeting them and asking thoughtful questions. And that is your jam then. Hell yeah, let's expand on it. Let's figure out what works for you.

If you're sitting here and you're like, well, I don't know what works for me. And you've got like this big question, mark, like the cartoon.

I think the beautiful thing about being an entrepreneur is you get to playfully experiment. And try new things. And when you're working with a coach and like when you're working with us in one of our programs, we're gonna at least have the fundamental knowledge to help you go about it the right way.

And to help you have a start so that we don't have to figure out all the PR the pieces. And what do you say and what questions do you ask? Like, we're going to walk you through those and we'll have times where people are like, all right, I'm gonna give this a try. And they come back and they're like, oh God, I hated that.

We're like, all right, like let's move on to the next thing to try and see what you love.

And then I have to have people come back and they're like, oh, I made some of my best as friends, but it really is. It's not, is it a good strategy to build organic marketing, to go out in different Facebook groups or build community through other different Facebook groups?

It's is it a good strategy for you to organically build your marketing that way?

[00:27:37] Jeffrey: That's huge. And going back to the investment part of things like that's really, um, you know, a small portion, but a very big value. You know, if you are an entrepreneur investing in yourself by, uh, um, hiring a coach, or a leader or some sort of guide, some sort of guide, um, to help you figure those things out because a lot of people will, um, see.

What the quote unquote experts are saying, and they're, they're all saying, you should do this. You should do this. There's very little saying, here are all the options. Choose the one that sh suits you. Right? But when you, when you hire a guide, they're the ones doing that.

They're the ones saying, well, let's try this and let's try this and let's try this. And let's fit. what fits.

[00:28:25] Amy: Exactly. And I think too, the other important part of when you're looking for a guide, a coach, a mentor, is, is that person asking you the right questions to really figure out what you're about? and that's. I mean, that's that? Ooh, I love asking questions. I did go to school to be a journalist and so asking questions and digging deep in tick, what do you love?

What do you hate? and then going, going about it that way And And being okay with knowing what you don't like knowing it's okay. That you don't have to do.

[00:29:03] Jeffrey: Yeah, Bingo.

[00:29:05] Katie: like, you don't have to do it.

This isn't school. right?

Like, I, I I'll tell you, like in third grade, um, you know, we had to do all these book reports and this one teacher just loved assigning creative book reports. And I was a writer. I loved to read the book and then I wanted to write a synopsis of the book and she's over here having me do dioramas and, you know, mobile mobiles and whatever.

And my mom And I are very similar. Like we're linguistic, we're not creative, you know, so both of us would be like, oh, another diorama you know? And so

[00:29:41] Jeffrey: You're like can't

[00:29:43] Katie: I, I, think

[00:29:43] Jeffrey: yeah. Katie's like can I just write a report?

[00:29:46] Katie: pretty much, I mean, I was just like, yeah, you're, you know, now I'm gonna get like a c on this project, even though I read the damn book, because the, what you're forcing me to do is

[00:29:57] Amy: The content creation is not aligned in joy.

[00:30:01] Katie: so you will never see a diorama come on. A Katie collins ever again.

um, alright, so I've heard you say it's crucial to have a marketing strategy Jeffrey, and I couldn't agree more on that. What does that look like for your clients?

[00:30:18] Amy: I mean, it's individual, right? So my strategy isn't gonna be the same as yours, Katie, or Jeffrey or Shannon's or anybody who's in our, our group. And so it's really, really important, again, to think through your flow of your work day, to think of the flow of your week. When are you best to create content?

And look at that first, before you're developing a strategy, cuz if you're developing a strategy first without looking at your flow and your joy, you're going to start resenting it. If it's not aligned, you're gonna procrastinate. You're not gonna do it. And you know, katie, I think we were talking about, you know, bookkeeping and stuff.

Guess What I did at six o'clock last night, my bookkeeping and my expenses, because it was the last thing I really felt like doing on a Wednesday, but I,

[00:31:05] Jeffrey: Yes. Yeah.

[00:31:14] Katie: Yeah.

[00:31:18] Amy: if you continue. To do things that you think, or you were told you should do, you might as well just go get a job, go back to corporate to America, like why? and so when it feels like your business is a job clear sign to pause, there is something wrong. And if marketing feels like a job, if you continue to say, I'm just not good at marketing, I'm gonna call it BS.

because you're a thought leader. you have something important to say it's how you are approaching your content creation.

It's how you're approaching, creating your messaging. And then, and so Katie, knowing that you are a writer, I would not tell you to do hand drawn graphics and presentations. We would probably talk through how can we take these kick ass pieces of content that you're writing, use them and also reuse them.

Some people get so wrapped up in the people are not paying that close of attention.

Maybe my mother is paying that close of attention on some of my stuff and that's if she remembers, but really people aren't, aren't paying that close of attention to know if you're reusing and repurposing.

But it is making sure track those ideal clients and being clear on who your ideal client is.

If I hear someone else say, I work with entrepreneurs, I'm going to scream.

Entrepreneur is too vague,

[00:33:04] Katie: Oh, yeah.

[00:33:05] Jeffrey: Yeah.

[00:33:05] Amy: Like what, what type of entrepreneur? I, I, can't raise my hand and say yes I can't raise my hand and say, oh my I work with entrepreneurs to help them move their business forward.

[00:33:21] Katie: Yeah.

[00:33:21] Jeffrey: Life coaches, life coaches that work with anybody with a life

[00:33:25] Katie: Yeah. I used to say that.

[00:33:27] Amy: a client.

[00:33:28] Katie: I used to say that um, no. And I say the same thing about like, please update your Facebook profile so that it does not say works at entrepreneur.

Also unhelpful. Like, I, I can't right. If I'm inspired by something that you said or did in a facebook group, I'm going to click over to your personal profile and do a little digging.

And if it says works at entrepreneur, I immediately click away like, oh, Nope. Not somebody that I want anything to do with cuz I just think it's really important. Yeah. Yep. Um,

[00:34:03] Jeffrey: I like, I like to also say that, uh, so many entrepreneurs, um, left their nine to five for seven to midnight and, and that's not the

[00:34:13] Amy: mm. No, not at all, not at all the way to do it. And I mean, I was just telling Katie Jeffrey, I know you were trying to get like your speakers hooked up, but, um, I just did a road trip for 10 days with no cell phone.

no GPS, no nothing. And yeah, I still actually worked. Some during those 10 days, I had a few client meetings.

We still had our creative content or our content personality club, and I was still teaching, but I knew I would be at someone's home that had said wifi. The one thing that I missed without having a phone is I do a lot of voice coaching.

Like I'll go back and forth and kind of have boxer or Facebook messengers conversations with me, my peeps I was on the road for multiple

[00:34:57] Jeffrey: Mm.

[00:35:00] Amy: iPhone. And so. It really, really got me thinking though. Gosh, I am blessed to have built a business with partners and with clients who understand I'm not there 24 7 for them

[00:35:16] Jeffrey: Amen. Amen.

[00:35:19] Katie: Yep.

[00:35:21] Amy: a crap in the middle of my 10 day

[00:35:23] Jeffrey: yeah.

[00:35:23] Amy: And won't, there is nothing so important that you should be putting in 14 hour.

[00:35:41] Katie: Yep.

[00:35:43] Jeffrey: their lack of preparation does not constitute on your part. Right.

[00:35:47] Amy: true that right. True.

[00:35:51] Katie: Sometimes it does in our business to be honest but,

[00:35:55] Jeffrey: Yeah,

[00:35:56] Katie: um, you know, you know, I. I personally believe, like if I've got my boundaries, um, And that they can, they can move a little bit, like I don't wanna work weekends, but sometimes a weekend's gonna come up where I have to work and I'm excited to because I'm like, oh no, one's gonna interrupt me. I don't have any meetings. The I work in an office building and it's super loud. Everybody can hear Everybody on either side. So I'm like, I'm gonna go into the office on a Saturday. No, one's here. It's super quiet. I can record.

Right. Um, you know, but, but I don't make it a habit. And part of that was moving my office out of my house. Now I can't have as much leaky energy as I did before where I would like sneak back in the office and do something later. But I I just think you. I don't even really track my hours, but it's like sometimes I put in four hours a day, you know?

[00:36:48] Amy: right.

[00:36:48] Katie: so I'm like, you know, then when I have to hustle on a Saturday, it's fine.

But yeah, I gone are the days that I'm trying to work, you know, the way I did as a teacher, cuz I talk about like lack of joy.

[00:37:00] Amy: Yeah.

[00:37:00] Katie: I mean, you know, so anyway, the breaks are really, really important. And even yesterday I, I wanted to push through to five o'clock and at about three o'clock I could feel my whole body was like, and we're done.

[00:37:12] Amy: down.

[00:37:13] Katie: Just done. And so I can waste two hours trying to force myself to work, or I can just be like, okay, I think

[00:37:20] Amy: I'm done.

[00:37:20] Katie: in in the morning and do it, you know?

[00:37:22] Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, put it off till the next day. Right. Again, you're not saving lives. And I think the one thing too, I think the original question was about marketing strategy. Right? We build tie

[00:37:37] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm

[00:37:38] Amy: shit's gonna happen. You're gonna feel sick. There may be a death in the family. Your kids may be home. you may have a sick, a sick pet. And so when you need. to pull out of that reserve for your marketing strategy so that you still are reaching out to your clients and still being consistent, you can And so making sure that you have that reservoir or backup and knowing when it's time to, you know, I love those ,you know, only

[00:38:14] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm

[00:38:14] Amy: be okay with it, but know? that you've kind of built it in there for your strategy for when you don't have flow times to create.


[00:38:22] Jeffrey: I love

[00:38:23] Katie: So um, I know you guys have a cool quiz, um, that talks about you had you kind of alluded to it earlier. So let's dive into that a little bit. Like what are the different personality types out there for creating content? Okay.

[00:38:43] Amy: where you take those quizzes and you'd see, Like what house are you gonna live in? And who are you gonna marry? is way cooler than those quiz. So it's about three minutes. There's five.

[00:38:51] Katie: none of

[00:38:53] Amy: I know, right? oh, but there's five content personality types. The first one is video, then it's audio written. visual, so when I say visual, think hand, drawn graphics, people that love doing CAMBA things along those lines, and then live in person and your live in person, person is gonna be, you know, something like we're doing here where we can actually see each other. We're interacting with people we're going on stages. We're hosting workshops. Your video person is the person who lovesac or loves creating real.

They can be on video by themselves and hold an audience. Your audio folks. I mean, hello, radio DJs, Like right there is your audio right there. You can be again by times.

What we hear with someone who is audio is, gosh, I could listen to your voice all day. And usually they're really great at picking up the phone and making phone calls. And then our written content personality is gonna be that person who can really dive in and write that blog or dive in and write that mini ebook thing. Um, and a lot of times too, it's kind of funny.

People will come to me and say, oh, I know my content personality. And then I'll look up their name in our system and be like, well, you haven't taken the No. And let me just tell you a funny story about Shannon. Who created said quiz.


[00:40:36] Jeffrey: feel a

[00:40:36] Amy: she, oh my gosh. It's just so funny. And I still, this still, I love telling shannon stories without her hair. So she creates a quiz and takes the quiz and it used to be on like a piece of paper that you would print and like check, check box came around to do it online and she kept getting live in person. Shannon is a major introvert. Shannon again is a major writer. She had written her first book at this point and she literally Crump pulls this piece of paper up and throws it across the room. She's like, no. And So she continues to write and she was just so frustrated though, cuz she was creating all these great written pieces.

She was writing for Huffington post. She was doing all of these written things and not attracting people.

And so when she finally took a PO tell my clients to do, which is embrace their content personality type, that's when her business really took off. So she was really stuck at like that right. $200,000 mark. And as soon as she just embraced it and started to use her thought leadership in a live in person format, I mean, she was able to jump up to that 300,000 really, really, quickly and easily, and then up to 400,000. And so even the creator thought she knew what content personality she was, which was written because she likes to write.

So passion projects of her now are written things. She'll journal. She, she wrote another book. Um, but when we look at the content creation, how we market, how she.

It's live in person. are you digging

[00:42:24] Jeffrey: taking this quiz. Cause I don't, I have no idea.

I have no idea why

[00:42:29] Katie: I can guess mine, but I'll take the quiz too, for sure. Um, and we'll

[00:42:32] Amy: All right.

[00:42:33] Katie: we'll put the, the quiz in the show

notes so that people can,

can check it out as well.

[00:42:37] Amy: And I mean, if anybody's interested, just Google content, personality quiz, it's gonna show up.

[00:42:41] Katie: Yeah. So I wanna ask this final question, cuz I think it's really important. Um, you know, something you guys had said was when you're marketing out of alignment with your content personality, it can cause more harm than good.

[00:42:57] Amy: Mm-hmm

[00:42:58] Katie: Tell me, I mean, I think we kind of touched upon it not already, but like

[00:43:02] Amy: yeah.

[00:43:02] Katie: it's kind of like this energetic thing, like you're showing up doing something that you don't want to do.

[00:43:08] Amy: Yeah. Yeah. And it really, it is. It's gonna like help. It's gonna help you attract the wrong people. And so, um, really when you look at it and think through it, like it is those people who don't feel like they can afford you. And again, we talk through how that is also

[00:43:26] Katie: yeah.

[00:43:27] Amy: ERY. And so if you're creating your content out of alignment and you're forcing it and it just doesn't feel right, if you are ending up attracting people, they usually end up being the wrong person to work with you. And then. You know, Katie, the thing that I see a lot of people do when they're marketing out of alignment, but attracting people, yo, they're not, they are then feeling bad in adjusting their pricing to meet that person where they're at, because it's not the right person.

And also hear a lot of people say they are just waste.

And so if any of those things what it, could be a combination of.

[00:44:19] Katie: mm-hmm

yep. I think those symptoms are really important to speak to. Right. Because it's like people could be listening, going, oh, I don't have a content creation problem. And then they're like, oh, let's see, I'm converting it 20% or, you know, and I know, and i, I don't remember if it was pre COVID. It was a few years ago, but I had. Restructured one of my offers because I frankly needed the money at the time. And I really did wanna work with this, threesome basically. So I was getting what I would get for one, but I divided it by three, you know, and it was the worst decision.

[00:45:00] Amy: Mm-hmm right.

[00:45:00] Katie: for, for so many different reasons and, you know, two out of the three, like didn't finish and just, they weren't as committed as what I was looking for. Right. And then the one that brought and the other two, she stayed, she was committed. And then she, it was pre COVID. Cuz I remember during COVID she sent me this, you know, holy shit. Like I just made enough money to pay off my bills for the whole year. And it was in

[00:45:23] Amy: Oh gosh. Oh,


[00:45:25] Katie: March of 2020 when like The whole world was blowing up. What a great, a great feeling.


Um, you know, but that, it it really just, it just solidified, like I have to work with committed people and it drains my energy to work with people who aren't ready to do the work. And I will never work with people like that again. So it was just like, I just think we just have to stop trying to bend its way to the people that are coming to us and take a step back and figure out how can I attract to me people that wanna do The

[00:45:58] Amy: right,

[00:45:59] Katie: me, People that like me right. People that I wanna spend time with that, like I consider my friends, you know, that was the business like from, you know, I think that was probably about 2019. All of that, like aha happened for me. Um,

[00:46:19] Jeffrey: Amy. I think this is, uh, such a, a, a profound conversation and a different approach to. To growing a, business. I love this concept of starting with the joy, bringing the joy in here.

Um, is, is there, is there anything you want to add to this conversation to kind of wrap it up with a bow or anything we left out?

[00:46:38] Amy: The only thing that I can think of is all right. So if the listener is not a solo per have a team

[00:46:47] Jeffrey: Hmm.

[00:46:47] Amy: on their team, and then a lot of people will say, well, Amy and Shannon, you, you everywhere. Well it's because we have a team

[00:46:59] Jeffrey: Yeah.

[00:47:01] Katie: Amen.

[00:47:02] Amy: so someone who can do the visual components of it.

We have someone who is great at the audio. So our own team takes our quiz so that we can make sure that we're not all hiring live in person people. And so the example that I will give you is I used to work for a standardized construction contracts coalition.

It is as boring and eye gouging, as It sounds like. Yes, but the guy, the, the coalition members who founded the organization were really jazzed and I saw the value proposition of this.

So when I joined the team, the CEO made him take the quiz. He was written. And I was like, okay, Hoby, you're not going and speaking on stages anymore because it's a waste of your time.

You need to write, he had already hired an assistant who thank goodness was visual and quizzed out that way. I quiz out live in person every time I take it. And so we really, really needed that audio person on the team.

And so when we, when I was interviewing people, I wouldn't even do an interview with somebody unless their result was audio. And the HR manager was like, this is a really weird.

Way to approach this. And I was like, I'm not wasting my time talking to people, who are live in person people, because then we're just gonna both wanna do the same thing. If we're gonna have a well-balanced team, I need someone who's not scared to pick up the phone.

And so the the gentleman or the kid that we ended up hiring had dropped outta college, was working at the mall, selling cell. and hated it cuz he had to sit there and exceed people and interact with them.

And so when we did his interview and we did some trials, I was like, he's gonna do great because I need someone who can pick up the phone and just sit on the phone all day.

And we were stuck at 750,000 before we brought him on board and we, they had tried other sales people, all of them were live in person people. Once we brought that person on, we hit 1.2 million in less than 12 months.

[00:49:17] Jeffrey: damn.

[00:49:18] Amy: And none of us were lawyers and none of us loved the product so the moral of this story is as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you get to choose a lot of things, choose to do choose joy first and allow your team members to choose joy.

First, if you're hiring someone because they claim they are Jack of all trades. You're going to get someone who's spread thin and probably not able to really actually achieve what you want to have them do.

[00:49:49] Katie: not an expert at Anything.

[00:49:51] Amy: Anything. Yeah.

Jack about trades master of nothing.

And I get it. I, I can do a lot of things. Can I, you know, edit videos? Can I do all of these technological things? Yes. But is it I'm coaching people when I'm coaching somebody who wants to be a video person and needs to know how to use cool edit pro or whatever it is. Right. And so I do think that we were taught to be jack of all trades and we're completely throwing that out on the window. Stand stand in your excellence and stand in your joy and don't apologize for it. And let your team do that too. If you're building out a team.

[00:50:33] Jeffrey: I kind of see this as a way. Like if, if you're out there and you already have a team doing all of this, take this quiz and make sure

[00:50:41] Amy: Mm.

[00:50:41] Jeffrey: right spot, doing the right thing.

[00:50:43] Amy: Yeah, exactly. And we've, I've seen that happen too. And, you know, it's then shifting jobs, shifting duties, duties, and making sure that people are actually really aligned with how they're creating. Um,

[00:50:54] Jeffrey: Yes. Oh, I love that. I love that we've taken a ton of your time and we're so grateful for you and all of this wisdom. Uh, tell us, tell us, how people can connect with you.

[00:51:07] Amy: you look me up, Amy Hager, H a G E R, uh, I'm on Facebook in LinkedIn. We do have the joyful business revolution and definitely check out that content personality quiz and.

Able to connect either on social media or email, or maybe even doing a little Facebook messaging back and forth. Cuz I love talking back and forth in that little messenger.

[00:51:30] Jeffrey: Love it. awesome. Thank you so much. And thank you, dear listener for joining. And if you enjoy this episode, please leave it us five star review and hit that subscribe button. And you can check out all the show notes and how to connect with Amy and the joyful business revolution. And to take that quiz at the launch squad, 76.

Thanks a lot. And we'll see you next time.

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About the Show

The Lighten Your Launch Podcast is for Coaches and Course Creators who want a lighter online launch experience. Maybe you’ve done a few launches already, and feel exhausted just thinking about it! Or, it’s been one of your goals, but you don’t know where to start.

Tune in to learn from our team of experts, The Launch Squad, who aren’t afraid to dig into all aspects of launching: sales, strategy, technology, mindset, funnels, and even a bit of woo to get you through the toughest times. Let’s put a stop to perfectionism and procrastination, and finally take your launch from intimidating to money-making!

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